on my agreement it states - Subject to consent from both parties, this Licence shall continue on 2 monthly periodic basis if not renewed upon completion of its period. Thereafter, it will be subject to 2 months’ written termination notice by either party or rent review by the Company / Landlord, if the tenant wants to end the licence at the end date of the agreement the tenant MUST hand in a two-month writing notice to the Company / Landlord
I complete missed this when signing the agreement but how enforceable is this? My current contract has an end/fixed term of 28th Feb. I only ended up giving notice 2 days ago so not exactly 2 months. I’ve read that however, you do not need to legally give notice at the end of a fixed term. The above clause refers to a periodic basis at the end of the fixed term but I never formally agreed to this. It says ‘subject to consent from both parties’ - I I had a new place lined up up and can’t afford 2 places at once.
To be clear, it doesn’t say AST but a license to occupy agreement.
@Peng2
You say you ‘never formally agreed’ but you signed the contract. That’s formal agreement.
Ask Shelter or Citizens Advice or get legal advice but while you are in the contract the 2 months notice will apply. It likely also says it has to end at end of a standard rental period so end feb, end mar, end april in which case you will be due to pay till end april if you only gave notice 2 days ago.
You ‘may’ be able to do a deal with LL (get advice first). They may be willing to let you pay (inc council tax utilities etc) up to date a new tenant moves in (with max up till end april) if you provide easy access for viewings and place is in a good condition as then they dont have a void/empty period so dont lose out.
The thing about not having to give notice at end of fixed term tenancies is something to do with giving notice on the final day and i ‘think’ only applies in specific circumstances @David122 will be able to advise. But i dont think it applies to you. To quote Shelter
" Tenancy states it continues as a periodic tenancy
A tenant cannot end a fixed term tenancy by leaving on the last day of the fixed term if the agreement provides that it continues as a contractual periodic tenancy. For example, if the agreement states that the landlord agrees to let for a term of 6 months and thereafter continuing on a monthly basis. The Court of Appeal has held that this type of clause would create a single contractual tenancy which is initially for a fixed term and then continues as a periodic tenancy"
My fixed term date is 28th Feb and I’ve already paid this months rent so I’m not leaving early or anything. I have paid off everything for this month.
Subject to consent from both parties, this Licence shall continue on 2 monthly periodic basis if not renewed upon completion of its period. Thereafter, it will be subject to 2 months’ written termination notice by either party or rent review by the Company / Landlord
I know I said I never formally agreed but isn’t that what the clause is essentially referring to? “Subject to consent from both parties” and “this License shall continue on a 2 monthly periodic basis IF not renewed upon completion of its period”. - I don’t know if I’m interpreting it incorrectly but that’s telling me that if I don’t consent to a periodic term after the end of my fixed term, it doesn’t automatically turn into a periodic/rolling basis. @David122 - would love to get your insight
hard to advise without seeing the actual full contract and clauses in full and you need legal advice but I’d expect it is much more likely that the consent is implied because you havent given notice 2 months before end and the default is to become rolling periodic. Even without such a clause ASTs normally become rolling periodic automatically this clause is just making it clear
@Peng2 anyway contract says you must give 2 months notice. You always knew that. Why exactly do you think it’s ok after start of feb to give less than a month’s notice? It’s their income. They have a mortgage and bills to pay.
If you had an agreement about 2 months notice and a LL gave you less than a month’s notice to leave and was legally able to do so through some sort of legal loophole you’d say it was unfair and ethically wrong, wouldnt you?
Not their fault you didnt pay attention to what you signed and want to quit early at no cost to you
Your agreement has an end date of 28th Feb. You have not agreed for it to be continued, and the agreement requires your consent to do so.
The agreement requires you to give 2 months notice to end the agreement at the end of the fixed term, however your agreement ends on 28th February anyway, so I don’t think you could be forced into given notice to end something that already ends anyway.
I think you could easily argue this point to your Landlord.
Secondly, just because the agreement says Licence and not AST, does not mean you do not have an AST. If you have sole use of the room or property, the Landlord does not live in the property, and you pay rent, you have an AST.
That is my exact thinking but I’ve been told different things from everyone. It’s a letting agency, (I don’t live with landlord) but they said I should be giving 2 months notice. I’ve gone back to them with pretty much what you said so let’s hope that they aren’t too difficult.
Despite what @Karl11 says, ASTs including fixed 12m ones do require notice to be given they absolutely **dont **end automatically. Instead by default they become periodic. Unless specifically agreed by both parties.
Otherwise tenants would never have to give notice at end of 12m ASTs and LLs wouldnt know up till final day if a tenant was staying or leaving which would mean they could have 1day notice and couldnt arrange viewings for a new tenant etc. So they would be bound to have void/empty periods unnecessarily which still have mortgage payments so rents would have to be higher to cover those empty periods which would be detrimental to everyone.
Your LL wont have had a specific clause added saying the tenancy becomes periodic if it then also needed you to actually give some form of formal consent because if that’s what they meant/intended they would have been asking your plans already and getting that consent/agreement from you, wouldnt they? The fact ASTs default to periodic after the 12m is in their favour.
The "subject to consent by both parties " bit is quite likely to be part of a standard break clause which typically allows you to leave early between the 6 month point and the end of the 12months. The Openrent AST has exactly such a clause. The mutual consent is about letting you leave earlier than 12 months. It’s not about whether the tenancy becomes periodic at the end of the tenancy.
But it will depend on the exact clause what is enforceable or not.
Read the Shelter page on this and ask them and Citizens Advice and get legal advice
In any case see whether you can delay start at your new place even by 2 weeks or ideally a month - new LL will think you are a good tenant planning to pay what your new contract says (unless theyve read this thread! ) or withdraw from that and find a different new place. You must have expected to have at least some overlap between old and new
Best case - you leave end feb giving access for viewings right away, LL.gets new tenant in for 1 march and doesnt pursue you for rent arrears because they have another tenant covering their mortgage cost
Worst case- you leave end feb, LL gets as much of rent arrears as possible from deposit (if any) and pursues you through the courts for rest of 2 months rent arrears and you have to pay that and legal costs (theirs as well as yours) plus interest on late rent as specified in tenancy. Because it’s outside the fixed term unlikely they could successfully pursue you for other costs like the remarketing i think
I doubt thats true the default is ASTs become periodic unless agreed otherwise -see my earlier reply- but we cant be sure with only snippets of clauses /contract quoted out of context. Needs proper legal advice based on sight of whole contract
My understanding is Consent is normally implied unless specifically not given, not the other way round. Otherwise a process to give consent would have to be specified
I’m quite happy what I’ve said is correct, but obviously the original poster needs to seek independent legal advice rather than rely on an amateur forum
Well everything ive ever read about ASTs here and elsewhere says asts default to rolling/periodic unless agreed otherwise. If @Peng2 is quoting a break clause it is likely to mean mutual agreement/consent is needed to allow a contract to end before the 12m point. That is what the OR ast break clause means. Otherwise it’s effectively not a 12m fixed period tenancy is it?
But we agree actual legal advice based on the actual contract is needed.
In any case @Peng2 signed a contract agreeing to give 2 months notice, didnt bother to read carefully what was signing, didnt communicate with LL, and is trying to get out of it and give less than a month’s notice. Not very reasonable or fair to a LL who may be dependent on the rent for march and april to pay their mortgage.
As I say to LLs here as well as tenants, there’s what’s legally enforceable and there’s what is ethically right and they ain’t always the same
From the site generation org page “Do I have to renew my tenancy?”
"However, your tenancy will become periodic automatically unless either you or the landlord/agent takes steps to legally end the tenancy. "
If you look at any of the threads here about abandoned properties the advice is consistently clear that just leaving isnt enough to prove a tenancy has ended, either.
sorry, my other account wouldnt let me reply. i think karl is right though. ive looked online and ASTs default to periodic if you stay past the fixed term date. as i plan to move out prior to that date and hand my keys back in and blah blah, it doesn’t apply.
you refer to this earlier - " Tenancy states it continues as a periodic tenancy
A tenant cannot end a fixed term tenancy by leaving on the last day of the fixed term if the agreement provides that it continues as a contractual periodic tenancy. For example, if the agreement states that the landlord agrees to let for a term of 6 months and thereafter continuing on a monthly basis.
again, there was no agreement that at the end of the fixed term so this does not apply. it quite clearly says ‘subject to consent from both parties’. if it was default, it would say something along the lines of ‘6‑month term AND THEREAFTER continuing monthly’. i did not consent and it can’t be something that is implied.
it is not a break clause either. i signed a 6 month contract back in September until end of Feb and 28th Feb is my fixed term date. i am gonna call up shelter tomorrow but from most of the websites ive looked at, it has said that you do not need to give notice for a fixed term tenancy. some do say unless the contract says otherwise, but this very vague and i dont think it is enforceable and applies to when it becomes a periodic term tenancy.
ethically, sure im not gonna argue against that but i am not willing to be charged for 2 months additional rent if i dont have to. the fact that we havent had proper heating for the past 3 months isnt ethical either
no i am just saying since we are talking about being ethical. we have had heating and hot water issues for the past 2-3 months with evidence and the letting agency hasnt given an sense of urgency. either way, not my intention to bring that up as the key point is i see that a fixed term tenancy doesnt require notice, as karl has also said. also, the AST defaulting to a periodic term tenancy only applies if you stay past the fixed term date.
Good luck with resolving it. Im not going to say the letting agent or LL are right re heating/water issues for which you could maybe should have argued for a rent reduction till these were resolved if they were taking an unreasonable time (more than 14 days or a month max)
Glad you accept there is also some issues in your side from giving so little notice - and as a teacher would say to two kids in a playground, two wrongs dont make a right
Hopefully you can come to an amicable or at least acceptable compromise with LL - you dont want to be pursued for rent arrears and LL doesn’t want to be doing that either
you’re paying rent monthly. There can’t therefore be a 2-monthly periodic basis. The contract was drawn up by someone who doesn’t really know what they’re doing.
I believe that the only time a tenant can hand in keys without notice is the last day of a fixed term.
But then the last time someone followed my legal advice they ended up in prison so…
…and your contract does say otherwise, specifically saying you need to give 2 months notice.
May be it’s not an enforceable clause and that other clauses in the contract might mean it’s not but we really cant guess from snippets of clauses that you quote trying to “prove” to us that you are right. You need proper legal advice
We dont know enough to know what type of tenure Pong really has. As has been said, the real status depends on the facts not the paperwork, so it could be a sham licence unless, for example:
Pong lives with the landlord and shares kitchens, bathrooms etc
Or this is a holiday let
Or this is a short term contract and Pong’s main residence is elsewhere
Or the property is a serviced let with in-room cleaning and the right to move Pong to a different room
If none of those apply, its likely that its an AST and the landlord/agent doesnt know what theyre doing. It probably gives Pong more bargaining power to negotiate a better option as they may not have done the things required for an AST, such as serving the prescribed documents and protecting any deposit.
If it were a fixed term tenancy then it would end when the agreement says it does and Pong could leave without notice. It would only continue as a statutory periodic tenancy if Pong remained in the property.
However, unless we know more about the circumstances its hard to advise further.
