Tenants not moving out inspite of section 21 in march

Landlord Discussion Legal
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well, to be fair, you apparently knew that they would create this situation for you:

If you knew that, then you’ve had plenty of time to prepare for the next steps which, as you’ve already been advised involve

I would argue that because you do not have funds you absolutely need to hire a lawyer. This is because

The losses that arise from making mistakes in the legal process could be much greater than paying someone to help you get it right. DIY is great, but in the home, not in court. You seem to be both trusting that your

and at the same time worrying about there being

This is a good indication that you need specialist advice.

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You need to obtain an Accelerated Possession Order from the court and possibly even then a Warrant of Execution for bailiffs to physically remove the tenants from the property.

You are fully entitled to receive rent whilst they still occupy the property. I have just been through a similar case and the judge never made any issue regarding rent payments.

The S21 is not dependent on none payment of rent, it is a no fault eviction. This would only become an issue if you were seeking possession via an S8 with grounds of non payment of rent.

Unfortunately you will not be able to evict them legally any other way or any sooner than the court process takes.

You can say whatever you want in your communications, I would suggest you definitely advise the tenants you will be seeking a possession order and, if necessary, a Warrant at a cost to them, if they choose to ignore the S21 move out date.

You do not need professional advice unless you really want to pay out further and hope to recover costs from the tenants. The court clerks will give you all the information you require to submit the application for a Possession Order and Bailiff eviction. See an earlier post on this topic wherein I wrote a detailed list of the documents, costs etc.

I made an error in that I submitted the forms in my name only but our properties are in joint names, the judge sent them back requesting we amend the documents when he noticed the landlord details on the TA, so it does not mean your documents will be automatically rejected.

Being overseas I even had to send a digital copy of the revised form and my signature which was accepted by the court.The court clerks are very helpful and would no doubt help check your application form and documents if you asked at their office.

We have since received the Possession Order and are now undergoing the Warrant application.

I would suggest you have a bit more confidence in yourself especially since you say you have an interest in the law and presumably have done your research into the procedure. I have saved a fortune in legal / professional expenses by conducting all my own disputes and the situation noted above was the first time I was slightly out of line with anything, perhaps I’m going senile in my old age, also slightly out of touch and rushed to prepare the documents before I left UK.

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@Chris35

While you are right that @chawal2 can do all the legal stuff themselves they clearly lack confidence. Well done in navigating the legal system yourself

Similarly @chawal2 can indeed say whatever he likes to tenants it is advisable to stick to the sort of factual items you suggest ie that will be serving papers etc. There are reasons to avoid giving such advance warning (tenants may change locks and block letterboxes to prevent papers being served) and similarly to avoid any appearances of either harassment or attempt to illegally evict tactics (which can cause an s21 to fail).

@chawal2 Some further advice here

Tenant Not Moving Out on Agreed Date | Property Guide Tenant Not Moving Out on Agreed Date | Property Guide

(Unsurprisingly from a site called law hive they advise getting professional help)

Good luck

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The court papers are issued from court and are not registered / recorded delivery, they are simply assumed to have been delivered and the court process marches on regardless.

It is definitely advisable to notify the tenants to give them the chance to do the right thing before they are stuck with the court charges, a likely incentive for them to follow the rules since we’re talking about court charges in excess of £500.

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@Chris35 OK sorry I was thinking about earlier notices where I’ve seen reports of tenants blocking letterboxes etc to claim papers never received/served.

Best

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thanks Chris @Chris35 much appreciated your encouraging advice. as far as i know, tenants do not pay a penny for eviction. all by landlord upfront. secondly, i do not know how to pay for my by-hand application? i do not have cheque book and someone said leave a note in file asking them to call for payment=i find this option risky and they may just bin my application.

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@chawal2

If you don’t trust the payment method for a paper form why are you asking us which approach to use?

Anyway you don’t have to wait for them to call you can call them

"

How to Pay for Possession Order Application

  • Possession Claim Online (PCOL): The fastest method, allowing payment via credit/debit card or Direct Debit.

  • Paper Application (Form N5/N5B):

    • Cheque/Postal Order: Made payable to ‘HM Courts and Tribunals Service’.

    • Debit/Credit Card: Provide a contact number in your cover letter for the court to call for payment, or call the court directly.

    • Fee Account: If you make many claims, you can set up an HMCTS fee account to pay."

Best

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Correct, the landlord pays upfront but the court will apply the costs to the possession order for payment by the defendant if you tick the appropriate box on the claim acknowledgement form requesting it.

Take a bank draft cheque.

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thanks a lot @Chris35 one last query is that-the tenants r 4 adult relatives who signed single AST. do i need to supply one copy for each tenant? so 4+1 for court+1 for each of landlord? i co-own property with my partner. thanks

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@Leslie1 how are politicians responsible for tenants who choose not to move out despite a s21 ?

Best

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I would have thought you would only need to list the tenants as co-defendants on the one application as its one property and one possession, but a quick phone call / visit to the court will get you a definitive answer.

What does your S21 cover?

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I really feel for you - I know you dont want to use a “solicitor” in fact the advice is dont use one. We used an Eviction Specialist Mark Dawson of AST - he’s the most recommended one that keeps being suggested. We got our tenant out - as you have discovered the process can be done by you but its easy to make mistakes especially when dealing with difficult people. we were also in a loss situation but we just had to pay his fee to get the tenant out. We sold up after this. I do hope you get them out.

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i called court multiple times yesterday-upto 30 min at a time. none picks. i listed all names in S21. my guess is it should be per AST one set of documents. thanks Chris @Chris35

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@chawal2

no.that’s totally wrong

(From Google based on gov sources)

“When applying for a possession order in England and Wales, you generally need to provide the court with the original document plus one extra copy for each defendant (tenant), plus a copy for your own records”

“If you have one tenant, you will typically need 3 copies of all documents: one for the court, one for the tenant, and one for yourself. If there are joint tenants, you need an additional copy for each person.”

Just read the guidance which makes this perfectly clear eg

“You must provide the court with an additional copy of each of the documents you are submitting, for the court to serve upon your tenant, and you should keep a copy for yourself. If the tenancy is in joint names, you will need to send an additional copy for each person.”

If you can’t read published guidance and follow it despite your interest in the law, you are going to make a lot of mistakes and waste a lot of time and £ (every extra month is a month’s rent lost plus a month’s insurance and other costs)

Best

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thanks David @David240 I appreciate all your selfless help

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Hi All, i am about to fillN5B form but following two queries i have: (1) I have 4 tenants who jointly signed AST. how to add 4th defendant details as form only gives upto 3 defendants and no guideline about adding more.:folded_hands:

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(2) secondly* how to answer Q15g and Q15h as in photo: they did complain mid december about mould and roof leakage, and i got all walls internally insulated, and new roof. i confirmed to them in email early march, and next day i issued section 21 notice due to my personal circumstances and they causing lifestyle condensation in newly built room as well as bathrooms inspite of extractor fans and windows in bathrooms, without heating and use of dehumidifer and keeping windows closed (my builder took video). inspite of lot of discussions sep-nov. my property is old build so i did my bit but mould will not go away due to their lifestyle. so i think both parties had to act for the mould when they complained mid dec. (3) thirdly, Q15h will be lie if i said NO but difficult to prove. How to answer please? and (4)fourthly, do i need to give supporting document for Q15g and Q15h and how to give so? No guidelines in form about this​:folded_hands:

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@chawal2

This is exactly why you need expert legal advice from an eviction specialist who knows how to fill these forms in and what the courts expect, instead of trying a DIY bodge.

I would print an extra copy of the pages saying this defendant, cross out third and write ‘Fourth’ on those pages and add the Fourth dependants details.

Always tell the truth in these forms don’t lie.

Q15g the answer is Yes if they actually complained. If they simply asked you to address the issue and you did the answer is No

If at 15h you have evidence the problem was at least in part due to Lifestyle then say Yes. The fact it’s hard to prove is neither here nor there given you have anyway spent on insulation to mitigate the issue. If you can attach written statement or other evidence from your builder saying lifestyle has contributed to issue. You should also attach evidence of the works done to address the mould issue

The point about these questions is establishing whether you have served s21 in retaliatory fashion due to the tenants complaint, in which case it could fail. The fact you did the work to address the mould counters that accusation. If the tenants do actually challenge the s21 as retaliatory you have the evidence that says you spent £ and addressed the issues and only served the s21 after the work had been done, so you weren’t trying to avoid addressing the mould issue by issuing a s21

I would include a covering letter saying what you have supplied (n5b form and annexes including extra annexes with correspondence between you and tenants confirming the tenants were happy with the works done to address the mould, and details of the works done and when completed

Good luck

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thanks for all your wise advice David :folded_hands:

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