My LL is a married couple, one of whom has become increasingly rude during the many years I have lived in their property. They have never undertaken adequate repairs etc. and act like I should be grateful to them for allowing me to live here. Over time I have become increasingly anxious about interacting with this half of the couple. Due to a lack of local housing I have largely had to accept the fact that they have ignored mould, broken doors, holes in windows etc, to avoid eviction, which has always been used as a stick to hold over me. At one stage I agreed to a ÂŁ600pm rental increase to avoid them issuing a section 21.
They informed me by text message a couple of months ago that they have decided to sell the house (along with the rest of their rentals), citing excessive costs of being LLs. I understand that these changes have affected a lot of LLs so it didn’t come as a surprise and I have been viewing properties in anticipation of notice being given.
The original text message said they would be looking for me to leave by September so they could renovate and list the house in October. I haven’t received any formal notice.
They have now messaged saying they require access to the house this week to take photographs to list the property for sale. I feel extremely uncomfortable with having all of my and my children’s bedrooms / property being listed online - it is not possible for me to move things out of the way as I have four children and I work full-time from home.
Do I have to allow this to happen? Do they have to give notice before listing the property for sale?
I do have a viewing on a property this week which I am hopeful will result in us being able to move, although with the new notice periods it will mean me giving almost 3 months notice and I’m not sure if the new LL will be willing to wait that long (I cannot afford cross over rent and my current LL is money-focused so will not allow me any leniency on the new rules).
One of the main reasons I work from home is because I have c-PTSD and the level of anger / conflict that comes from my current LL if I don’t comply with their requests is extremely triggering. I need to reply to them to let them know I feel uncomfortable with the photos being taken but feel incredibly anxious about the inevitable barrage of messages this will set off.
Under the RRA, they will need to give you four months’ notice. This notice should be in writing. In other words, if you pay rent on the 17th of the month and they haven’t yet given you written notice but do so by the 17th of June, the notice won’t expire until the 17th of October.
It is in their interest that you find a property as soon as possible so if you do find one before that, you should be able to leave without any further rent payments being due. It would be wise to ask for you all to sign and have witnessed a deed of surrender to ensure that this is legally binding on all parties.
There’s nothing to prevent them marketing the property for sale, and it is reasonable of them to ask for photos to be done so that they can do this. However the taking of photos and any viewings should not interfere with the “quiet enjoyment” of your home. In other words, you should be able to tell them when you will be ready for photos to be taken (within a few weeks seems reasonable so you can prepare rooms well and remove any personal items). You should also have considerable say in when the viewings take place and how often and they should not pressure you otherwise.
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@Renter987
Think how/if you can discuss and agree a mutual way forward by speaking to them and being helpful in a non confrontational and businesslike way while protecting yourself and your kids’ privacy. Continuing by txt won’t help. It’s too complicated.
Check with Shelter and citizens advice
Check your tenancy agreement. The standard one from Openrent has this clause
(From the sample ast)
"9.43. To permit the Landlord, and any superior landlord, or the Landlord’s employees/agents at all reasonable times after giving the Tenant at least 24 hours’ notice (except in an emergency):
to enter the Premises to inspect the same and the Landlord’s furniture and effects therein (if any);
to carry out any works of maintenance or repair to the Premises or elsewhere which the Landlord may consider necessary;
to take gas, electricity or water readings;
to carry out the Landlord’s obligations under this agreement;
to inspect the Premises for the purpose of preparing an EPC and recommendation report for the Premises or the building of which it forms part and the Tenant shall cooperate with the Landlord so far as is reasonably necessary
to enable an EPC and Recommendation Report to be obtained;
for any purpose mentioned in this Agreement or connected with the Landlord’s interest in the Premises;
to enter and view the Premises with any prospective future Tenants or purchasers during the last 60 days of the tenancy."
- Taking photos to market the property for sale is clearly “connected with the LL’s interest” so if this is in your tenancy agreement then I think you probably do have to provide access.
- However as you haven’t given notice or agreed an end date for the tenancy with them the last point maybe implies you possibly don’t need to let any potential purchasers in as the LLs can’t say when they will be within the last 60 days of the tenancy. The tenancy only ends if you give notice, a date is mutually agreed or they obtain possession after serving notice and potentially applying for possession through the courts. This gives you some leverage. Check with Shelter and citizens advice tho
- They don’t need your permission to put the property up for sale.
- They can’t force you to move without giving the proper s8 notice seeking possession on the grounds they are selling - when they serve this there is then a notice period of 4 months. (A txt message from 2 month ago doesnt count.). If you don’t move out by then the tenancy continues and they have to apply to court to seek possession (for which they can charge you the fees in due course if successful) and ultimately bailiffs (ditto).
- You could ask if they have considered selling with you in situ. If you are a good tenant with a history of paying on time that could be attractive to the right investors and saves your LL from having to renovate
- If they are using a professional photographer maybe ask that your children’s possessions are photo shopped out of any photos produced.
- You do have some negotiating power - they don’t want to have to apply to court for possession which could delay any sale or even mean a sale falls through. Similarly for both taking photos and for any viewings you allow, it is reasonable to insist you are present when estate agents and strangers are present in your home especially as this has your and your childrens’ possessions, so they do have to fit round your availability and have an interest in behaving reasonably so that you do too.
- If they proceed with taking photos to sell but have not served the correct notice, that might count as harassment if done with intention to intimate etc. Ask Shelter or Citizens Advice.
- Last but not least I’d suggest you arrange to speak to them face to face with a friend present, perhaps saying you’d prefer to deal with the better partner due to your c-ptsd. They will likely be just as anxious as you - they can’t guess your reaction to being told you have to find somewhere new for your family, but want to sell the property. Dealing with every detail by txt (or email) is stressful and bad for everyone you and they need to establish some expectations for the next few months- you are still responsible for paying the rent and they are still responsible for getting things repaired properly and can’t stop just because they are planning to sell. You can say you are already looking for other places to show you are trying to help
Good luck
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@Renter987
.Ps there is advice from Shelter at this link - they do have to either use the correct form or send all the prescribed information that is contained in the form, for a section 8 notice to be valid
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They may be looking to sell with you in situ.
Thank you for replying. Originally it was stated that they would be looking for me to move out by September with a view to listing the house in October.
@David122 that’s a good point
@Renter987 would be good to clarify LL intent by speaking to them. If they want you to move out then renovate before listing as previously indicated what would be the point in taking photos now? ( Maybe they just want some to show some estate agents to choose whom to use and get approx valuations)
Best
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but if so
Agree that the T needs clarity on the LLs’ actual intentions before they know how to respond.
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Thank you to everyone for all of the input here, I genuinely appreciate you taking the time to respond.
The message sent specifically says that they want to put the house on the market this week and will require access for up to date photographs for the listing. This is not what they originally stated in terms of time scale for listing, or intent to renovate etc, however I don’t feel I am in a position to raise issue with that specifically (as it is their prerogative to change their minds). My issue is I feel incredibly uncomfortable with the photos. I realise this may seem unreasonable, and this isn’t really the place to explain in detail, but it is an overwhelming prospect for me in a situation that is already incredibly stressful due to the lack of housing locally.
I have been advised that I do not have to give them permission to take the photographs but I’m not great with confrontation either so would prefer to be 100% clear on my legal responsibilities before responding.
@Renter987 check with Shelter and Citizens Advice but I think your right to privacy and quiet enjoyment as a tenant likely means you can refuse to allow any photographs showing your personal items to be published and used for marketing purposes without your permission.
Perhaps offer to agree to photos if and only if all the possessions will be removed by photoshop and you see these to confirm before they appear on any website etc ?
@David122 may also be able to advise
Best
Some advice below you could quote to LL from “estate agent today”
"It’s important to remember that while landlords and agents are well within their rights to take photographs and videos of a property, those images should be focused on the condition the property is in, not the renter’s possessions. As such, the photos you take should not be excessive. Try to steer clear of personal possessions and advise renters to point out or move away any belongings that they would like to be omitted from photographs before the inspection.
Additional care should be taken to ensure that no identifying details such as family photographs, addresses, financial documents or other personal details are recorded or shared."
https://www.estateagenttoday.co.uk/features/2021/08/can-landlords-and-agents-take-photographs-during-property-inspections/
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@Renter987 David240’s point about photographs is correct. A few practical things that might help.
On access for viewings and photos: your landlord must give at least 24 hours written notice before entering, at a reasonable time. A casual message saying “we need access tomorrow” does not meet the legal requirement. You are entitled to be present during any access, and you can decline if proper written notice has not been given.
On photographs with personal items: you can reasonably request that any photos used in a sale listing do not show your belongings, family photos, or anything that identifies your household. Estate agents and landlords do generally accept this if it is raised calmly and in writing.
On the September deadline: the text message about wanting you out by September has no legal standing at all. Under the Renters Rights Act, to recover possession for sale, a landlord must serve a formal written Section 8 notice under Ground 1A, with at least 4 months notice from the date of service. Until that notice is properly served on you, you have no obligation to vacate at any date mentioned informally.
Getting written confirmation from the landlord about their actual plan, sell with you in situ or seek vacant possession, would help you understand what steps are coming next and prepare accordingly. Citizens Advice and Shelter both have free services for exactly this kind of question.
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You can either agree to go based on a mutual surrender or ask for notice. The former allows you to set your own timetable to some extent. The latter is 4 months. Either way, Im afraid this landlord, like many are getting out of the business, so you’ll need to find somewhere else to live.
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Ask Shelter to provide a letter you can sign and post to the landlord. shelter will include all the necessary info.
If you have found a suitable place then agree a move in date with the new landlord and discuss with your existing Ll whether they are prepared to ofter you a one off payment to move early in return for not sticking to the regulated 4 months from their formal notice. Of course you don’t tell them you have a place lined up and it gives them time to renovate.
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It would appear you need to have a proper conversation with the landlord to establish their intentions.
They are required to give you 4 months notice as has been noted by others, but there is nothing to stop you agreeing to vacate at an earlier date. However, you need to get this agreement to break the notice period with a Deed of Surrender from the landlord to enable you to make firm arrangements for a new tenancy elsewhere, you obviously do not want to be paying rent for a property you are not living in.
The RRA also allows you to give 2 months notice to quit at your behest.
Hope this helps you decide your options.
Speak to shelter, speak to your council you may be underestimating the tremendous powers and rights tenants now have
In the short term yes you can deny entry. In reality you can stop paying and still be there in 15 months and if your LL gives you real grief they can be arrested.
At one point you may need a good reference but based on what you say if you leave first that may not be forthcoming so stay put so on any referencing you will probably get a good response. if he wants you out a LL will often bend the truth if they want their house back, just a fact