Looking for some urgent advice from fellow Landlords. Situation. I let my property recently on 24th April 2024 to a female going through a divorce. No issues with initial rent and deposit. I had Gas cert to complete in June and gas engineer called to say the CO2 detector was missing. Very strange as was there a couple of months ago. Anyhow I said I would grab a new one and run one over immediately whilst he was there.
Took me no more than 20 minutes to grab one from Homebase round the corner and arrive at my rented property.
Long story short, a van was in drive and I asked what appeared to me as the driver if he wanted to back out. He said no and asked who I was. I confirmed I was the Landlord. He confirmed he was living there and that the lady I let the house to shot off in her car as soon as she was told by the gas engineer that the landlord was on his way to drop off the CO2 detector.
Transpires that the tenant allowed this person to live at the property as she owed him money.
I thought long and hard about this as instead of shooting for Section 21, I discussed with the tenant that I could go down the costly legal route with her or we both amicably and mutually agree to end the contract, which we did. She agreed to serve the 2 months notice and has paid the rent on time.
New tenants have been secured and the person living at property been helpful and not caused any problems until now.
Now with handover date of Sunday 8th Sept he has messaged me to say he will not move, that the council have advised him that it will take homeowners 9 months to take possession of their property due to the backlog and that if I enter property on 8th Sept he will call the Police as I will be trespassing.
Have raised this with the rightful tenant who says she has no contract with him, he pays her no money and I should call the Police if he does not leave.
Of course, I need to take legal advice ASAP but wanted to ask my fellow Landlords for any advice and what right/s I have come Sunday.
I am currently exploring :
a] what advice the Police can give.
b] how quickly can I get a court order to get the non-tenant out of the property
c] if there really is a god
hi @A_A . yes planning to go down to station on Monday to make report.
i did call local station by phone which i think still puts you through to 101 who said this is a civil matter. i disagreed and said someone i donât know is there and tenant i agreed to let is not living there.
i did some research and a court order could be fastest route.
I assume the proper tenant with whom you have a terminated contract will be liable for your costs as she re-let to him in breach of her agreement.
I would check this, and if so highlight this to her to see if this concentrates her mind in helping get him out.
Is he a squatter, if he was allowed access by someone who legitimately had access to the property? Or is he an innocent renter who is legitimately renting from your tenant.
This is potentially a much more complicated case that you might imagine. You definitely need legal advice from a specialist landlord and tenant lawyer, (donât go to a generic high street firm).
I think that your tenant would be considered by a court to have sub-let the property rather than just letting a guest stay there. This is because even though he may not specifically be paying her rent, she owes him a debt, which I assume is being cancelled in exchange for his stay. I think that this would be considered âmonies worthâ by a court and give him an undocumented tenancy.
If your tenancy agreement with your tenant prohibited subletting without consent and you didnât consent, then she was in breach of contract and you could in theory sue her for your losses. It would also normally mean that once her tenancy ended, any unauthorised sub-letter would be a trespasser who could be removed by the courts. However, my understanding is that if the tenancy is ended by surrender rather than notice, this doesnât apply and the tenancy would continue, I believe with him now becoming your direct tenant. What I am not clear about from your post is whether your tenancy contract includes an option for the tenant to serve notice at this early point in the tenancy. If not, then the notice would be invalid. Even if allowed by the tenancy agreement, it may be challengable by the current occupant. At this point it all gets even more complicated and Iâm not clear whether a judge would find that her tenancy ended through operation of law or perhaps has not ended at all. It probably comes down to the specifics of this case, to case law and some of the finer points of statute. As I said, definitely one for the lawyers.
I would also suggest you donât accept any rent from the current occupant until you are clear whether he is now in fact your tenant.
@Karl11@A_A
Just got off phone with my solicitor.
Being told that according to the law I cannot make someone homeless.
However, they said the way forward is to move swiftly to Section 8.
All costs I can recover.
My solicitor said I need to serve this other person who I donât know nor have proper details of with a Notice. Still scratching my head as to how I can do that when I have no agreement or any financial exchanges with this person.
@David122
Thank you for your feedback. Yes quite a lot to consider.
Regarding the early end to contract. Its states on contract that early termination of the contract can be achieved by mutual agreement.
So for nearly 2 months the non-tenant has led us to believe he will be compliant etc.
Its only now (last night) that he has shown his true colours.
Did some googling and I am horrified by the mountain of debt this person has. He is a builder and people have even setup a website to warn others of him.
He is definitely skilled at this.
I donât think your solicitorâs advice is necessarily correct. It sounds like theyâre not a specialist. I suggest you get a second opinion before acting.
Yes itâs complex. itâs unlikely you will recover costs in the real world. the solicitors will make hay on this one and it will be a long time getting access if you sit back and wait for the courtsâŚ
My way has been to hassle the person, not threaten but be there to fix stuff, let them know itâs not their property. maybe use a bit of social media. let the suppliers know about non payment issues. be face to face and be prepared to take a financial hit to get the person out.
Do start the legal progress they will know the clock ticking so that strengthens your hand.
Be creative in your thoughts and consider from their perspective.
personally I would not go near the police or council, they really couldnât care less about you and it can easily backfire.
I would suggest seeing your MP who may put a squib under the police. Tenants - or rather ânon-tenantsâ raise the costs for good tenants enormously because landlords have to factor in the ârisk factorâ. Currently the law is supporting wrong doers at the expense of decent people. The law needs changing.
The law and government support the wrong doers, as these wrong doers need shelter too, but the council and the government cannot house them so make a law for private landlords to house these wrong doers. Such a shame! These motivates more people to take the wrong road or the wrong side of the law.
@A_A@Colin3@David122@tigerlillies1410@Karl11
Thank you all for your feedback.
so i learnt a few things but most importantly and does not come at a cost i should have served a Section 21 as tenant was in breach of contract. equally should have sent to non-tenant.
i thought the mutually agreed end to contract was just as good but i would have lost 2 months if i needed to serve Section 21 now.
well i took on the good advice given by you all and i did the following.
made it very clear to tenant that the onus is on her.
i advised her that come Monday 9th Sept and i dont have keys and access to my property my solicitor was ready to serve a Section 8 to both.
i also double relayed that she should encourage non-tenant to leave.
I then went totally silent.
Saturday i got a text to say non-tenant said he was moving out by COP Monday 9th.
happy days if he has moved out, however the place is a mess.
i need some advice about the deposit.
i have 5 weeks deposit with DPS. but i cannot wait to hire anyone to clean and garden the place up. i am 100% certain all the rubbish that has been outside for a few weeks will not be cleared. the driveway has van oil all over it. complete mess. carpets are ridiculous, non-tenant has drilled holes into the outside of the conservatory to hand baskets (this is really annoying).
i gave the house and gardens in MINT in condition.
can i claim for my own efforts ?
i donât want to return her deposit. this all has been too stressful for my wife and I. non-tenant kept a dog and smoked in the house - both breaching the contract.
I trust you have a moving in inventory signed by the tenant showing , for example, that the hanging baskets were not there, drive way was clean, garden well maintained, carpets clean & undamaged etc when she moved in.
If you have, you should have no problem claiming from a deposit, with before / after photos.
Hi im really really sorry for your predicament.
I had a friend/ worked for me ( to help him out with a bit of money) who was a bit mentally ill and started becoming more of a stalker. Hence i stopped giving him work and ended our friendship
During this time i gave him a roof over his head and did not charge him anything.
I told him to leave as i needed property back and it was only a temporary arrangement. When he went out i locked the doors and collected his stuff together to give to him. He came back and broke through the back window. I rang the police they were brilliant! They came over and told him he had to leave and saw him off the property.
( his parents live near by so was not an issue)
The police asked me to prove it was my property cause he was telling them he owned it but they were amazing
No contract= no rights!
Whether written or word
He is trespassing
I hope this helps and wish you best of luck
X
@Misha_And_Richard
Lovely Name MISHA. itâs also my daughters name.
as person had broken in Police can act.
update on my property : tenant has been round and house is empty (kind of). she said she will clean all day tomorrow before handing me the keys.
new tenants messaged me to say man has pet allergy and he wants assurances that everything has been professionally cleaned.
i have asked him for clarity on how long he has had this pet allergy and how severed and if he can get clarity from a doctor.
Have i done the right thing ?
or do i need to do more to avoid a future issue
this might backfire. Allergies can take a while to show and even if they sign something that says the condition of the property is OK, itâs arguable that they werenât able to make that decision on check in if subsequently they develop allergies later on, particularly if itâs something thatâs clearly connected with the property and for which they receive medical treatment. I would consult a property solicitor to ask if they could draw up something that says they will not hold you responsible if they do subsequently develop allergies as you cannot predict that they will not.