Hi @Rhian1
I don’t know if you are aware but Training for Professionals have compiled a universal conversion contract, for Wales. A friend and I have purchased it, and shared the cost, if it helps.
It’s beyond belief that OpenRent have not supported their landlords, in this regard, with an option to purchase similar.
I, like you, would not be confident in compiling my own conversion contracts, using OpenRent’s template, without having the legal knowledge.
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Thanks for your feedback on this, and sorry to hear of your frustration with the level of customer support received; if you still have unresolved questions then by all means send a follow-up email to the team referencing this conversation and the team will be in touch the same working day.
On the question of whether conversion contracts need to be sent out for the period prior to renewal, this post would be relevant:
https://community.openrent.co.uk/t/re-landlord-in-wales/49009/2
I can’t comment on the reasons for the advice that the NRLA or Training for Professionals are offering, and it would make a considerable difference whether they were talking about precisely the same case or a slightly different one (e.g. where one of the contract-holders has changed). Unfortunately this is a one-off situation and the legislation is extremely lengthy and complex in places, both of which may make differences of opinion more likely. We completely understand landlords’ frustration with the challenges posed by the implementation of this legislation by the Welsh government.
We would challenge the notion that it makes sense for landlords to choose the NRLA over OpenRent. For one thing, the two should be mutually compatible and complementary. We provide a wide range of products that the NRLA don’t offer, even though we don’t currently offer the type of product that I think you’re referring to - i.e. tailored legal advice, perhaps via a paid annual subscription as offered by the NRLA. We would love to be able to offer landlords further options in this area, and will take into account your feedback on this case in particular.
That said, in the light of how the legislation is worded (see above), it’s reasonable to question the content and the motivation of the NRLA’s advice, especially given that it is arguably good for business for them to offer advice of this sort that appears to increase the need for NRLA products/membership. Out of the two organisations, OpenRent has provided free resources and guidance transparently rooted in the legislation; I wouldn’t be able to say whether the same is true of the NRLA.
A universal contract would unfortunately be difficult or perhaps impossible due to the different possible cases, and the fact that of course it would be essential to avoid giving landlords a contract-type that wasn’t appropriate to their particular circumstances. The template and renewal feature should be suitable for the vast majority of cases; we are sorry that some drafting work is required on the landlord’s side, but would still point out that as Daz mentioned, these are both offered for free despite requiring considerable time and cost, so we would hope that most landlords would still see this as extremely good value.
As we have outlined here and elsewhere, we hope and expect that the vast majority of landlords will be able to use our free resources to meet their obligations as easily as possible.
Hope all the above makes sense, but please let us know if not, and in any case thanks again for your feedback.
Kind regards
Robert
Thank you for your reply @Robert ,
The link that you supplied does not work, I’m afraid. It says, ‘Opps! That page doesn’t exist or is private’.
In reply to your comment about what NRLA and Training for Professionals are offering…it is for a like for like conversion, and the NRLA are only offering a bespoke conversion document for those people who have been using their tenancy agreements previously. So, as this of no benefit to me (although I could use a similar **‘free’ template, from them, to the one that you have provided , it would be of no further advantage.
Therefor the NRLA suggested that we speak to Training for Professionals, in the first instance, as they train Rent Smart Wales, so have an overview of everything.
TfP have sold hundreds of their universal conversion documents to many letting agents and landlords, as they say that their will be a ‘gap’ (from Dec22 to May23), and that this must be covered, due to legislation.
I am a good landlord and try to do everything ‘by the book’, as I don’t want anything to ‘come back and bite me’ later on. Please can you tell me the reasons why OpenRent think that this is not the case, and have advised against needing it, so that I can understand?
I have been asking this question, via emails, for weeks and just get referred back to your website, which gives absolutely no clarity, and has been so frustrating.
I will probably still renew all of my contracts with OpenRent, but this is purely because it is going to be easier, due to the tight time constraints that I now find myself in.
I hope that your company is open to the constructive feedback given on this forum, and uses it wisely to change this positively, going forward.
There needs to be a way of getting past your call centre people, if needed, as they are like an impenetrable ‘wall’. I realise that they are just doing their job, and it is not their fault, but it does not work, from a landlord’s point of view, when information is needed quickly.
Maybe you should think about charging a small membership fee, to allow you to provide a phone-based legal advice service, or link up with another company to provide this .
Looking forward to your reply.
Viv
Hi @Vivien3 ,
Many thanks for your response and further feedback.
First, apologies - I didn’t realise that my previous post wasn’t visible to you. Here is the content:
Requirements for landlords directly relating to tenancies that were made before the Renting Homes (Wales) Act 2016 came into force are set out in schedule 12 of the Act, which can be found here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/anaw/2016/1/schedule/12/enacted
(The legislation has subsequently had some amendments, but these do not appear to affect the below points).
Schedule 12 of the Act deals with pre-existing ASTs that became occupation contracts on 1 December 2022. These contracts are known as “converted occupation contracts”.
As set out in Schedule 12 a Landlord must issue the contract holder (tenant) under a converted occupation contract with a written statement of contract before the period of 6 months starting with 1 December 2022.
Paragraph 32 of Schedule 12 clarifies that any occupation contract that follows on from a converted occupation contract where the parties and dwelling remain the same is considered to be the same occupation contract for the purposes of Schedule 12.
Our view therefore is that issuing a renewal contract where the parties and dwelling remain the same is sufficient to comply with the legislation. It is important to remember that this should not be construed as legal advice; unfortunately the guidance and legislation lack clarity, other views have been taken on this and if in doubt we recommend that you take independent legal advice.
For landlords with fixed term contracts, we have also provided an option of using the written statement of contract for a fixed term converted occupation which can be found here: https://help.openrent.co.uk/hc/en-gb/articles/15416043738129.
As noted, if TfP or the NRLA have different advice, this is worth taking into consideration; however their incentives here may not be above question as I touched on before, and despite all the confusion that the legislation has caused, we would certainly hope that the chance of a contract-holder pursuing their landlord, and the landlord being penalised by the courts, would be very unlikely in such cases where the landlords had complied with the goal and seemingly the letter of the law by issuing an occupation contracts to existing tenants within the prescribed timescales.
The point about our customer support, especially on the phone, seems more general but I agree it is very important and will be passed on. Our customer service team find that email support has significant advantages in most cases, since they can provide same-day written responses that direct customers to the extensive information and guidance that we have compiled on our Help Centre and elsewhere; however, it seems clear that you did not find this sufficient on this occasion and we apologise for this and very much appreciate your feedback.
Best wishes
Robert
I have renewed all bar one of my contracts who were all in situ either 6 month, 12 month or rolling Periodic tenancies prior to the Dec deadline … do I have to legally issue converted contract paperwork too
…as I know the WAG (muppets) changed bits of the legislation 3 weeks ago…?
New contract template offered by WAG wriiten in Klingon (IMO) …I had trouble following it …so did my lovely tenants. I am leaving the last property empty as thinking of selling it tbh and getting out over the next couple of years as too much paperwork/stress/admin on those of us trying to do it properly.
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I have been told by NRLA and TfP that we should, so I am going to. Such a pain to have to do it twice though @Alison17
I guess I better had then…where is this supposedly usable template please?
A friend an I bought ours from Training for Professionals (£420), as the OpenRent one would have taken forever! Might be okay if you only have one or two to do.