My tenants gave me notice 7/3 adamant that they could end tenancy on 7/4. I informed them had to be month from date of next rent payment 30/3 therefore tenancy would end 29/4. One has moved out as relationship broken down and his words to me were if OR had informed me when I told them I was ending tenancy that I had to pay until 29/4 I wouldn’t have signed up to my new tenancy as I cannot afford both. I replied to them the day I had their notice which was a Saturday informing them it would be 29/4 as per their TA. No payment was received yesterday and other party still living there, they did say they were getting a van and moving out on 7/4. I did inform them that if I could get a new tenant in asap I would refund any monies owed. They’re also not being obliging as to letting me into the property so I can estimate what needs doing before I relet. What right will I have to take anything owed from their deposit? When would you advise to advertise as available again?
(“. I replied to them the day I had their notice which was a Saturday informing them it would be 29/3 as per their TA.”
Sorry this is a little confusing you say here 29/3 but earlier say it is 29/4
Can you explain all dates notice given etc for each tenant separately?)
if you have proof of rent arrears you can claim from deposit also for breach of contract if they have refused you access for an inspection visit (if you gave them reasonable notice and it was an OK time they can’t refuse access nor can they insist on being there tho it is advisable)
Best not to advertise something before you know what state it’s in
Good luck
Thank you for your reply. That’s what I’m thinking re advertising, thinking it could be in a bit of state! Would you email them today even though I have rent collection with OR and ask when they intend to pay, party who moved out did say they’d pay yesterday up until 7/4 which is when they believed their notice period ended!?
Sorry my mistake 29/4 should be!
@heather8
at this point I’d probably be trying speaking first, repeating both that rent due till 29/4 as per TA and your kind offer to not claim full amount if you can get new tenants in before then, so if they can leave in a good clean tidy state that will help
Then follow up by email to confirm offer
Priority probably getting them out and getting new tenants in. Fingers crossed for you not too much else to claim from deposit and you’ll get your rent arrears from that instead. If you’ve been doing regular inspections and they’ve been taking care of place so far based on those then may all be ok.
Good luck!
Theres not enough info here for a definite answer but assuming theyre joint tenants in a periodic tenancy, the one has served an invalid notice which youve told him about, but it sounds as though he didn’t then serve a valid one. This means the tenancy continues, he’s still liable for the rent and the other one is under no obligation to leave.
Yes, they’re joint tenants and on periodic tenancy. I spoke to the party who has already moved out, regarding the incorrect date, which is when he said I moved out on 16/3 into another tenancy and I can’t afford to pay for both but then he did say he’d pay up until 7/4 which is when he was adamant his notice period ended. It was due yesterday and I’ve not received a penny, the other party still living there has told me they cannot afford the rent and don’t get any money until 17/4 (student loan). If they move out on 7/4 I cannot see them then paying me what is owed at a later date! I’ve not contacted them regarding no payment and not sure what to say tbh
Just be pragmatic, you probably arent going to get all your money just focus on getting THEM to give you a clear date of vacating.
Re advertise the property now and set up viewings after you have been in to have a look. I wouldnt rattle them too much, a disgruntled tenant can do a LOT of damage.
The legal situation doesnt really add up to a hill of beans, tenants disappear into the aether and apart from a deposit its unlikely you will get more money back. You might.
This could be a golden opportunity to sell the property to avoid the RRA
If the other one does go on 7th, they will both have effectively abandoned the tenancy. Try to get him/her to confirm that theyre leaving in a text or email and keep all the correspondence, including the defective notice. Hopefully it will be enough to prevent either or both of them later claiming youve illegally evicted them by re-letting.
Worth being careful on the deposit side. In situations like this it’s usually the documentation trail that gets looked at if anything is disputed, not just whether rent is owed.
If the tenancy dates, notice handling or access attempts aren’t clearly evidenced, it can get harder to justify deductions later on.
I have always cooperated with tenants, allow them to leave when they want, as kindness - life happens, and because it works better than your plan. In return tenants have always cooperated to allow inspection visits and viewings and repairs and leave property as good as they can . Makes life easier for all. ( If they do not have the money, unlikely you will get any.)
By insisting on a later end date, with consequences of not being able to inspect, advertise, agree a new tenancy / abandonment issue, you are likely to have a longer void, lots of hassle and financial loss. My advice is talk to them, apologize for your panic, agree to accept a negotiated plan - a deed of surrender signed, free access to inspect and start repairs if need, advertise and do viewings, so new tenancy can be signed on day they return keys, assuming 7th? ( Rent arrears up to Their requested end date still to be paid by deduction from deposit or affordable agreed payment plan)
This is not a case of unkindness. Whilst a landlord can accept a defective notice from a single tenancy and make it valid, this is not really an option for a joint tenancy as its easy for the other tenant to reject the notice as invalid.
Thanks for pointing that out David. I thought notice given by either tenant in a joint tenancy , ended that tenancy? Is this now incorrect? In any event, I have always asked for a notice signed by both tenants, agreeing to end tenancy on requested mutually agreed date in past.
Next time I would use a deed of surrender. What are your thoughts?
It is correct that one tenant in a joint tenancy can end it with a notice to quit, but only if its a valid notice. If both tenants signs, it doesnt have to be valid as long as you formally accept it.
Update on the situation
I have decided to sell the property as I don’t want to go through this situation again.
Tenant B constantly moving their move out date. Promised to pay 13/4 but nothing materialized.
This morning messaged to ask if they can move in a sibling who is in receipt of benefits and is 16 then they will be able to afford rent. I messaged back saying sorry I’ve decided to sell, I can’t afford not to receive rent. They’re now begging me to let them stay and I sell with them in situ said no it needs to be empty and as they’ve already given notice that shouldn’t be a problem. I’ve explained it’s harder to sell with a sitting tenant and the value is less too. They then said well it will be hard to sell nothings selling at the moment.
I can feel myself getting more and more angry but need to keep calm because i don’t want to make them angry and then do damage etc
Any advice please. Thank you
Keep doing what you’re doing. A tenant who “holds over” after a valid tenants notice has been served is a tresspasser and liable to pay double the previous rent payment.
They are constantly text messaging me begging to stay and trying to make me feel guilty, hence the reason I’m selling as it’s not doing my health any good. Now ignoring the texts but how would you respond as I want to know what she intends to do. I’ve replied 3 times saying I’m selling, should I send an email now and what would you put, I’m concerned if I ended up going to court ( can’t see her moving out if she hasn’t anywhere to go) but thinking if I send an email to both parties and the tenant who has moved out thinks he’s going to be liable he may have something to say to her though they’re not speaking to each other?
Just to clarify too after a previous message I read from you, think you, if the notice was given via email by the tenant that has moved out, who was the lead tenant, does the notice apply to them both & tenant B is bound by that?
@Jacko71 get proper legal advice from an eviction specialist serve a valid s21 if you can
This is from Shelter
“Ending a joint periodic tenancy
You can give notice to end a joint tenancy.
You do not need the other tenants’ permission.
But a notice to quit ends the tenancy for everyone, so talk to the people you live with first.
You can only agree a tenancy end date with your landlord if other joint tenants agree too. You should get the agreement in writing.”
Which I found confusing.
As the original notice may not have been valid so if both didn’t sign/agree it you now may have a problem
Good luck
Don’t accept any rent after the notice has expired and the tenant should have left.You will be starting a new tenancy. Let the remaining tenant know that the notice to quit has been accepted and they must vacate as agreed. I did find the different dates confusing in your previous posts though.
Edit..ignore this as the tenant notice may not be valid as was not accepted. Read further posts.
I’m no expert in this situation, but I believe this might be correct.
You need to consult a lawyer with expertise in the rental sector