Our flat supposedly had a leak into the flat below, it damaged the ceiling so we paid for the ceiling to be repaired.
The owners are not happy with the standard of repair and are demanding we do it again, we think the leak may have originally come from the bath in our property so we had it resealed straight away.
What are our actual responsibilities as landlords? Should we have even got involved in repairing the ceiling below?
Also now have the director from the management company which is a right to management company, demanding we sort it out.
Provided the leak wasnt caused by yours or your tenants negligence you shouldnt have any liability and it sould be covered by insurance, either the group scheme if there is 1 or the individual insurance of the owners below.
You say “supposedly’ but haven’t indicated any other possible cause of the damage to the ceiling - it is likely to have been from above especially if you have pipework there so you should have got that fixed not just repaired the ceiling otherwise the problem will have returned. You should have checked the pipes under the bath and established the source of the problem not just repaired the sealant.
You or your insurance are likely responsible for damage caused by an issue within your property to a neighbour. Despite what @Richard19 says, contents insurance normally covers damage caused within a property so downstairs’ contents insurance wont cover damage caused by an issue within your place above.
But you don’t say how long ago problem was and how long ago repair was done and whether problem from above still seems to be ongoing
The only situations this won’t be the case will be
a) there is communal contents insurance between the flats which covers leaks in one flat causing damage in others - but this is pretty rare and I’d expect you to have used originally (and had to pay excess)
b) the cause of the damage is from outside (failing pointing, gutter or downpipe leaks) or from parts of the block that are communal (eg if there is a communal heating system) in which case the building insurance from freeholder should cover
c) the cause is within the flat downstairs eg condensation related damage from a poorly ventilated kitchen or bathroom.
In your case you accepted responsibility by getting it repaired - equally your neighbours downstairs chose to accept your choice of contractors instead of getting quotes themselves.
I would get them to provide details of exactly what they consider is wrong with the repairs done, with photos and put those to your tradesman (and maybe a couple of others - post on checkatrade?) who can give you an opinion. I wouldn’t assume flat downstairs is wrong maybe your tradesman did a bodge. Or did not repair to good as new (eg if cut out a section and did a patch repair but did not then re-skim the ceiling and paint it). Or maybe problem really is down to lifestyle downstairs causing condensation and ceiling stains and peeling paint. Impossible for us to know
@Karl11 normally building insurance covers only the structural elements of the building such as walls and roof and joists.
Plasterboard ceilings between flats are normally considered part of the contents (just like flooring is)
I have practical experience of this having had a ceiling come down on my bedroom when there was a small leak in flat above. Water built up, eventually a section of the ceiling collapsed under the weight. It was covered via contents insurance from flat upstairs (who reimbursed costs agreed by my emergency cover from my own contents insurance)
I had another ceiling come down in a different property but it was considered to wear and tear and not either a leak or movement/subsidence (phew) - the insurers sent out somebody to check as I was worried it might be related to some cracks but these were in plaster not the walls- so neither contents nor buildings insurance covered it
I have no experience of this, but still disagree on this one. Ceilings & flooring are part of the structure of the building. Hence, Building Insurance.
doesn’t really matter what you think Karl. It’s what the insurer thinks. Seeing as how David has experience of this, I’d consider his opinion to hold more weight in this case.
@Karl11 I know that’s what I thought before I looked into claiming on such things. But structural doesn’t mean ‘part of the structure’ apparently.
Suppose your tenants damage the carpets (which is often the flooring). Would you expect the freeholder’s building insurance to cover the damage? Clearly not. Same apparently applies to floorboards. After all would you expect building insurance to cover the doors ? These are part of the structure just as much as the floorboards.
I know windows (their maintenance and replacement) are sometimes the responsibility of freeholders and sometimes the leaseholders so there are def some blurred areas but flooring and plasterboard ceilings do seem normally to be considered part of contents.
Whereas the joists, which are part of the structure supporting the floors and floor coverings, are def part of the structure.
It may well vary between policies but all I can do is report on multiple instances of dealing with ceiling issues - in every case the contents insurance for flat above has covered (where not wear n tear) and def not the freeholder ’s building insurance.
The only case I’m aware where that wasn’t the case was where (in a new build) there was a spring supported structure above the ceiling holding it up rather than simply plasterboard screwed into the joists. In that case there was actually a structure holding the ceiling up so repairs to it were done under building insurance (the 10y new build gtee)
I don’t want to take-over this post with this as its clearly going of on a tangent, but I would just recommend @Daniel146 doesn’t take either of our advice as to whether this should be a claim on a buildings or contents policy. Maybe speak to their insurance company.
@Karl11 yes agree @Daniel146 should check - as I said originally sometimes there are contents policies for a whole block covering exactly this sort of thing ie leaks in one flat causing damage in another - but I think this is relatively rare. And if caused by a leak from a communal area/communal system pipe or from exterior then could be freeholder’s building/contents insurance to cover
More urgent is to establish whether leak/problem is ongoing or now fixed, and what flat downstairs’ complaint about original repair actually is