Set-up by tenants!

Landlord Discussion
1

These lovely tenants arrived in a great hurry to rent ( previously arranged house had fallen through).

T/A was drawn up.No references as said they had never rented before. Would pay all rent for the year day before move in plus deposit on day of move in. Payment of deposit was was suddenly moved to day after move in as “ had to make another payment on day of move in of £25000”

Deposit was protected on day of move in and all paperwork ( PI, terms,EICR etc)was documented. I was about to go on holiday and wanted the DPS sorted. Deposit was paid next day.

Tenants stayed three years, five tenancy agreements. Six weeks before end of tenancy they disappeared, rent unpaid. Tenant appeared at checkout day and presented me with a letter of demand of payment of three times deposit plus rent because deposit had been wrongly protected. I ignored the letter. It was then followed up by a letter from “ no win no fee” solicitors demanding £41,000. Very threatening. I should not try to claim rent arrears or they would preceed straight to court and I would have to pay £1000s in costs.

I took legal advice. Yes, I just might be guilty of not protecting deposit correctly. I should take barrister advice (£1000’s I don’t have).

A private investigator appeared at the house searching for the tenants. He said that he was searching for the tenants in connection with a previous tenancy. I said that I was told they had no previous tenancy.

He told me they had had eight previous addresses in the past eleven years , all in the Leeds / Harrogate / Otley area ..three of those years at my property. Sadly he would not share his information and said if landlords had paid out before court , there would be no record of previous history.

It would seem now that my tenants are “professional tenants”, a new industry exploiting loopholes in the Housing Act for financial gain. Since the Siddeeq v Alian case last year tenants are waiting for landlords mistakes.

Does anyone have any advice on how to find these tenants previous addresses/ possible tenancies without appointing a PI ? I need to prove that they lied to me about their history. I don’t have the money to hire a PI. Any help would be appreciated.

The tenant left on poor terms with the previous landlord? What now?
2

So sorry to hear this has happened to you. What a nightmare.

Thank you for taking the time to warn us of these con artists.

Someone on here has details of an agency that traces previous tenants. Unfortunately, I can’t find that thread to post the link for you here. I’m sure they’ll be along shortly, but you may find that everything you have about these people is false anyway and so no way to trace them.

Five tenancy agreements in three years doesn’t sound right at all.

3

Thank you so much for your reply. The tenants were always “about to leave”, but kept asking for short term agreements.

4

So, if I understand you correctly, you protected a deposit that you hadn’t already taken and didn’t protect the deposit that was taken?

5

I dont think that proving they lied will help you. Deposit protection breaches are a strict liability offence. If youve made a mistake, and in this case it sounds like it was protecting the deposit before it was received, the judge has no choice but to award a penalty. The only discretion is the amount. With a trivial breach such as you describe, I’d be surprised if they were awarded more than 1x the deposit. The usual advice is to make a counter offer of 1.5x the deposit. The tenants costs should only be awarded to you if their solicitor can better 1.5x in court, which seems unlikely. On this basis, most will avoid going to court altogether. You also want to avoid going to court, especially if they have a no-win, no-fee solicitor. These get a win bonus which is usually double their costs, which you might otherwise end up paying.

I dont think you need a Barrister at this point, but you do need an initial phone call with a specialist firm of solicitor, such as JMW, Anthony Gold or one of the many firms of housing solicitors. Initial advice is often free or low cost and may be enough to confirm your next step.

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6

How have the solicitors calculated this figure? Have you verified the solicitors are a genuine firm? This figure seems high, how much was the deposit?

Are the tenants claiming for each new tenancy agreement you issued?

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7

I Thank you so much for your clear reply. Im not sure how the figure was reached, but yes it apied to each tenancy.. I was told that if I could show that the tenants misled us into giving them a tenancy agreement ,the tenancy agreement could be annulled. Surely that would affect the case? The solicitors are in Cheltenham.. dreadful reviews..but that doesn’t help me.

8

As David122 advice above and make sure you have all your facts at hand in order to fully explain the situation to the housing specialist solicitor.

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9

Usually deposit claims are multiplied by the number of tenancies, so at least 5 in this case. Its another good reason not to renew a tenancy, but just let it go periodic. However, Im not convinced that the breach could be said to be repeated in this instance, unless there is a deposit scheme requirement to issue new PI for example. This is why its important to get the thoughts of a specialist solicitor. It could mean spending a few hundred quid to save thousands.

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10

Thank you so much for your advice.

After receiving the letter from the tenants solicitor I did pay a well thought of housing solicitor for advice. The cost was around £400. After reviewing all the evidence they came back to me with the conclusion that I may have failed to protect the deposit correctly.

11

Hi @Townsend

Thanks for sharing and sorry to hear.

I got a referencing report done by Homelet it included past linked addresses (expect they look at electoral register and addresses held by banks and credit cards), you could then check who owns those properties cheaply using 192 or similar then contact the owners (some may have changed tho)

I’m told some agents no longer trust past landlord refs anyway as landlords may give a glowing ref to help ‘bad’ tenants move on and be someone else’s problem.

I ‘think’ every time there is a new tenancy you do have to do everything again inc deposit certificates, issuing epc gas safety and electrical safety and how to rent guide etc.

I would consider telling your local paper and publicise on social media - or even contact ch5 ‘slum landlords and nightmare tenants’ - even if you can’t name names and you have made mistakes it may help others.

You could contact the National Fraud helpline too as this does sound like a bit of an organized scam if it is people repeating the same trick

Good luck!

12

What was their advice about how to respond to the tenants solicitor?

13

Thank you for the advice.

Please can you explain the reasoning of counter offer of 1.5x deposit. Is that a before court offer?

14

Yes, precisely. If you settle before court then you avoid the additional risk (guarantee?) of having to pay not only your court costs but theirs too.

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15

The thinking is that if you offer an amount equal to or above what a judge is likely to award, then the court would be unlikely to award you the tenants costs and they’d have to pay it themselves. On this basis, their solicitor will usually be reluctant to continue with the case.

You need to check with the solicitor you spoke to what they are suggesting as your next steps. Theyre in a far better position than us to know all the facts and have experience of how to respond.

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16

I’d be really interested in a private message about this couple as my properties are based in the areas you have mentioned and I would appreciate a heads up should they ever apply for one of my properties.

Many thanks x

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17

Unfortunately my private reply via Open Rent bounced back .

We are anxious to spread the word about this couple who were the last people in the world whom you would expect to carry out this scam.

I fear I could open myself to legal proceedings, or influence the outcome of a potential court case if give the names here but they were truly delightful people , closely related to two very well known Yorkshire families, the names of whom they used to increase their credibility.

It riles me to think that others who have been " set up" by this couple are funding their expensive life style.

An inland revenue inspector visiting the property explained his interest was that “when compensation payments are a regular occurrence , it becomes a business not a tax free income”.

These people really should be named and shamed .

I’m not sure how to send a private message on here if the direct reply does not work?

18

I was once told by another landlord “if someone is in a hurry to rent ,reject them, there is something wrong”. I have kept to this advice

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19

Agreed Colin’s I do exactly the same the more desperate they sound the further away the get from a viewing lol

I have sent you a message privately to ascertain who the couple were

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