We have recently handed in our notice, and indicated to the landlord that we cannot find our deposit using the prescribed information in the AST contract. They confirmed it was never protected. Here are the details:
- Deposit was received in full on first day of tenancy (06/2024).
- Deposit was not protected for duration of tenancy (06/2024 - 01/2026).
- Prescribed Information provided in AST contract is invalid since it’s entirely incorrect.
- Landlord is professional landlord with 9+ properties in London.
- Breach identified by tenant, not landlord.
- Landlord indicates deposit from previous tenant still in place (~01/2023), claiming entire situation arisen from an administrative error.
- We instead see this as a systematic failure of a professional and their systems.
- Raises questions about what funds we used to return deposit to previous tenants.
- Landlord has offered to return deposit in full (which we are in the process of accepting).
From what I’ve read, this is a complete breach of the regulations, and is only compounded by all the above factors (especially the professional landlord status), with the one exception of promptly trying to return the deposit. Given there is a single small mitigating factor, my guess is 2.5X compensation is a reasonable claim to offer to the landlord. But I would like to hear some other opinions.
For some background, the relationship between us and the landlord is not good, and has only slowly deteriorated with each difficult interaction. I have a previous thread on here outlining some of these interactions, so I won’t reiterate.
If this was a single fixed term, I would think you’d possibly get 3x the deposit, since an admin error doesnt sound like mitigation . If the tenancy became statutory periodic at any point, it could be 6x the deposit.
@LondonTenant0
Not clear how long your notice is but until tenancy has actually ended LL should meanwhile be putting your deposit in an approved scheme or they are continuing the original error? Sorry if obvious.
You could ask Justice for Tenants, Citizens Advice and Shelter. LL may well not want courts costs.
Not entirely sure previous tenant’s deposit return or not would be considered relevant (unless you had taken over their existing AST.)
Good luck
@David122
Thanks for the comment. It has become a statutory periodic, but the laws on this are unclear. There is a case where the rolling SPT was considered as a new tenancy (Superstrike case I believe), but recently it seems the courts are less inclined to rule in that way (can’t remember the names on the case).
@David240
Thanks for your comments too. The landlord say their advice is to return the deposit in full. This is something I’ve seen on lawyers’ websites, which makes sense to me as a remedial action. Our notice is until 31/01/2026.
We moved in after them, nothing about their existing AST in our contract. Regardless, I don’t see how their deposit still being in place is a good defense, if anything it just shows more historic neglect.
We reached out to tenancy angels, but it felt a little predatory so we disengaged. I will try Justice for Tenants. I’ve tried Citizens Advice with mixed success in the past, and I could only find contact on Shelter for those are risk of losing their tenancy.
@LondonTenant0
Google
“Make a tenancy deposit compensation claim shelter” in case that helps
Not sure they advise on individual cases tho, totally understandable if they focus on those at risk of eviction..
Good luck
Did it become an SPT? If they used the Openrent tenancy agreement, its contractual periodic, which is not a separate tenancy.
You’re right that some judges have ruled against the additional claim for an SPT, but a fairly recent court of appeal case, so binding, (Szorad v Kohli 2023) ruled that two awards were payable, although in this case, 3x for the first but only 2x for the second.
There are a number of other cases you can also quote if you intend to go down this route, although it sounds as though you may be content just to receive the deposit back.
Well @LondonTenant0 has said
“Landlord has offered to return deposit in full (which we are in the process of accepting).” and
“my guess is 2.5X compensation is a reasonable claim to offer to the landlord. But I would like to hear some other opinions.”
-doesn’t sound like @LondonTenant0 is looking to settle for deposit back and no compensation- why bother asking if not seeking compensation.
Whether it became an SPT is up for discussion, but I suspect it would be upheld as one if it ever went to court given its explicitly stated in one of the terms.
Here is the discussion about it on here.
And no, given how torrid this tenancy has been in our opinion, we want to see the landlord face the repercussions for their actions.
The previous landlord I had definitely made a couple technical breaches of deposit protection, but they were helpful and friendly so we didn’t pursue. I’m hindsight, I wish I pointed out those breaches so they didn’t repeat them.
@LondonTenant0 so basically because LL wouldn’t pay for green waste clearance in a garden you were responsible for, and where you hadn’t bothered to agree with LL in advance they would pay for it, and other issues over minor repairs, you are seeking to punish LL by claiming 2.5 x deposit compensation on the deposit issue instead. Think about whether 2.5x (5 weeks or a month’s ?) rent is a proportionate & fair punishment for some issues over minor works- there’s what you can claim and what you should claim
Understand the motivation to punish someone who you feel has behaved badly and where relationship has broken down. Not sure without the detail and lived experience whether/how much I’d try and punish through the courts or just chalk it up to experience because it’s then taking up your energy too in pursuing it - maybe put a proposal to LL and see what they counter offer
Good luck
@David240 I understand without full context I sound petty. But I can honestly say that out of all of my ~18 years of renting, this has been a magnitude worse than the next worst one (which was overall positive). Sure, I’ve had misunderstandings with previous LL’s, but we’ve come to the conversation and owned the mistakes and moved on. Here, that isn’t the case. Every time we reach out, we are told one thing, and receive something completely different, and then blamed when we enquire. And that’s if we aren’t immediately blamed for having the audacity to ask for assistance.
That’s not to mention the legal issues. The lack of a CO detector even though there is a gas hob and boiler (one is exempt, but I can’t remember which), lacking several of the statutory documents when we moved in, no deposit protection, an AST that is confusing because it contradicts itself, demanding entry without consultation with less than 24 hours notice.
As stated in the previous thread, if I was the only one in the building that experienced this I would say it was just bad communication on my part, but everyone we talk to is having a bad experience. The turnover is very high, and nobody leaves happy.
Just a final point on the garden, I agree that maintenance of the garden is the tenant’s responsibility. But years of neglect is not a new tenant’s responsibility. I agree I should have reached out before doing the work, but I feel wronged to have to pay to clean up after previous tenant’s neglect. We had a positive conversation about outdoor improvements when we signed the AST in person. I thought this was enough to do the work in good faith. I never though I would be told to chase previous and current tenants for money.
So yes, I feel like I should make the LL feel responsible for their actions since they clearly get away with it most times. This is a luxury most tenant’s can’t afford given the power a bad reference can have.
@LondonTenant0 thanks for explaining further and I didn’t mean to imply you were being petty, only that 2.5x deposit is quite a significant punishment so worth thinking about.. which you clearly have.
Given your motivations, after you’ve sorted & obtained whatever level of deposit issue compensation, and after you’ve moved out, it may be worth sending the LL a letter or a voicemail explaining all the various frustrations you’ve had and suggesting how they need to communicate better in future both so they have fewer disputes with tenants and less turnover. As a change in their behaviour is unlikely to result from them paying compensation they will just see it as another reason to sell up. They may or may not listen of course.
Ps if your motivation really isn’t £, then you should give the 2.5x compensation you get to a charity (maybe one for tenants or Shelter ?)
Good luck
As I said in your other thread, my bet would be on it being a CPT, but its hard to say for certain.
So basically, in short, this means that your landlord MUST give your deposit back in full prior to leaving your property. You can apply to your local county court if you think your landlord has not used a TDP scheme when they should have. The court fee is £377. You can claim this back from your landlord if you win your case. In short he should have protected your deposit upon providing your AST.
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Most deposit penalties are 1x the amount , what does it for LLs is legal fees!
You surely need to demonstrate your actual loss. You aren’t allowed a penalty clause in a Contract. I cannot see a judge awarding you anything other than your loss.
AI says 1-3 months. Which surprises me.
Personally I would take the deposit and if you have incurred other costs that landlord should have paid for, add those.
No you don’t. If there’s a breach of regulations, there’s a breach and you will win at least 1x. I know because I’ve done it.
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One other point to think about is how future landlords would view the situation, if you’re in need of a reference, or if they do their own research. If you are asked about previous disputes how would you describe this?
As @David122 put it, there’s what you could claim, and what you should. RRA has spooked many landlords and the level ot tenant due diligence is escalating.
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It’s the LL that’s in breach, not the tenant. The tenant should never be scared to pursue compensation that is theirs by right.
Any landlord that is fearful of taking on a tenant who would do so is a LL that the OP should steer clear of anyway.
In other words, if you were asked about disputes and declared this and were turned down, then would have done well to avoid renting from a LL who would potentially screw you over.
Compensation is for losses. In this case if they get full deposit back there are no losses.
In any other civil cases you would have to show actual losses in order to claim anything. It baffles me how for landlords civil courts are being used to punish and effectively fine landlords for mistakes, rather that compensate for actual losses.
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@tatemono
Nobody except you mentioned anything about anybody being scared. Or fearful. Or screwing anyone over.
All @David168 has quite sensibly suggested is that @LondonTenant0 works out what exactly he’ll tell a future LL So eg what was reason for 2.5x not 2x or 1x or 3x. What exactly meant LL deserved to be punished. @LondonTenant0 chose not to punish a previous LL who’d also made mistakes by seeking compensation even tho it would have been his ‘by right’ so what exactly was different aside from a breakdown of communications or maybe a personality clash? @David168 is simply saying he needs to get his story worked out.
A future LL who avoids tenants who have chosen to punish a previous one due to disagreements over minor works isn’t automatically ‘Someone who’ll potentially screw you over” either. They will simply be assessing risks based on whatever facts they can obtain from both sides (which we don’t have). Some LLs may not be as confident as you that they do everything right so may be cautious and prefer tenants without a history of disputes just like some prefer tenants without a pet. Some will not want to spend time assessing if they have other good applicants. None of which makes @LondonTenant0 wrong to pursue compensation nor makes those LLs bad.