You are not upholding an educated or respectful standard of debate by name calling.
I am trying to span across both sides of the argument. There are too many factions putting one side against the other with broad statements and no detail or factual information.
It’s complex, before I decide how to formally argue I want to ensure I haven’t missed anything. I do have my own experience and knowledge which is equally valid as yours. I am trying not to generalise specifically from it and referencing outside sources where I can.
Thank you for heads up about international professionals. We didn’t take them for different reasons. Glad we didn’t.
Yes, Cluster B is absolutely the worst, regardless of education or socio-economic status. We had to deal with a lady with BPD (a therapist herself), and it has been an absolute nightmare.
Entitlement and setting boundaries early is also spot on.
All in all, an excellent post. My guess it didn’t get recognition it deserves because you call a spade a spade, and, as such, it can be considered as non-PC )) People are scared to upvote posts like that.
Are you saying that as soon as T is served S21, they can appeal to CC for help, and they’re entitled to it? Even before they’re evicted? You couldn’t give a citation of this, could you?
Landlords have a duty of care to tenants when they enter a tenancy, meaning certain levels of care are expected. If the landlord fails their duty, it can lead to emotional distress. Sometimes, it is possible to sue a landlord for this distress. Instances when you may choose to sue your landlord include:
If the landlord fails in their duty of care and can no longer provide a safe and livable environment.
If the landlord makes repeat, unexpected visits without good reason.
If a landlord retaliates in response to repair requests, and this retaliation results in a revenge eviction.
If a landlord evicts you, the tenant, without a sufficient reason.
If the landlord discriminates against you or other tenants based on certain characteristics.
If the landlord exhibits generally harassing behaviour.
Last week I could not figure out why a tenant behaved the way she did . In fact I was left utterly bewildered. I have never heard so many lies told in a matter of a few minutes. Not one iota of that conversation was factually accurate.
I googled her ethnic background and dishonesty. There was an article written by a journalist of that ethnicity published in a paper of her country( I don’t know the calibre of press in that country) that explained that there culture is integrally dishonest. In fact they would sell their parents short if it was to further their own materialistic gain. I acknowledge that this may be anecdotal.
Shelter documents that certain ethnicities are prejudiced against when applying for tenancies and stated that landlords are racist and Asian landlords are more racist to those of black origin than any other group of landlord. What they failed to disclose is that cultural differences that create problems. I always defined racism as prejudice against colour. But this is not prejudice against colour it is not willing to tolerate cultural differences that one does not consider as acceptable behaviour.
Those same tenants don’t report how dishonest they are or how they will overpopulate houses. In fact speaking to estate agents and other landlords there are certain tenants that are doing rounds and no one reputable is providing them with accommodation.
There was a saying, that I was raised with, when in Rome do as the Romans. This is not the case anymore. Today we need to understand cultural differences as the generational shift is that we should accept their behaviour .Immigrants do not appear to adapt to their new country’s cultural norms.
Legislation has not considered any of these issues that indirectly are contributing to the housing crisis and is putting the blame firmly at the foot of the landlord.
From this I learnt I really need to research cultural back grounds before considering tenants as I am now going to have to live with the consequence of it for a lot longer.
I never thought of myself as racist. I am, though, intolerant of dishonesty and manipulation. Does that make me a racist or someone who wants to preserve their own sanity?
Yes! Once the s21 is issued the tenant can apply for support from the local authority.
The chances are they will want to negotiate with the landlord where possible too.
Unfortunately many tenants and some landlords don’t know this and if the tenant presents late into the two months it means there is less time for the council to act.
There won’t be a magic solution everyone knows how tight things are, but the council will contact other landlords, use their existing temporary provision and hotels etc and is obliged to make provision of some nature for the end of the notice period. The idea is to prevent the old situation of people being told to stay until both parties are emotionally and financially ruined!
The citation is in an earlier post but it had to be checked and took a long time to be published on here so I won’t add it again. If you scroll through it stands out. I’ve not looked at the update for this month yet though.
Multiple tenants in our area cited at the time this was the number one reason for landlords not letting to them if they had housing benefit. I’m aware of two other counties with similar problems in terms of administering it effectively. The council would not interact directly with landlords due to the Data Protection Act (as it was then).
The problem was not always tenants neglecting to update income information, but the overwhelmed system taking weeks or months to update the claim. Either stopping it in the mean time or creating an overpayment that then had to be recovered.
There was less issue with working tax credits, but that was always calculated over the year and so discrepancies were averaged out by 12 and therefore more manageable. It was also run centrally like UC and had greater resources to manage updates.
Do landlords have a duty of care? That’s a legal term.
I’d like to think you are right within reason, but I’m not sure they do. There are a lot of ‘duty of care’ type clauses as in don’t rent out a death trap and respect someone’s home, but it’s not in the manner that it’s provisioned for in the work place for example, and currently a tenant can be told to leave for no reason.
I think it’s in a landlords interest to offer duty of care assistance to a tenant on their way out because aside from being a good human, it solves a problem for them too, but given the responses here I’m not sure it happens consistently, or often.
The last tenant I served a s21 to was for rent arrears, significant damage to property and persistent verbal abuse.
On the last day of notice I visited the property ( with 24 hours notice ) to collect the keys of his housemate who’d left. I was greeted with horrific verbal abuse. I asked him to stop swearing because it was not acceptable behaviour. He told me to call the police as I was being melodramatic and did not think f…ing and blinding was abnormal behaviour.
To his surprise I did call the police and explained the situation. They actually blue lighted two officers.
I was told to stay online until officers arrived for my own safety.
We were separated and I was asked to demonstrate paperwork and written notice etc etc
The police then did not listen to a word he said and I was told to call them again if he repeated this behaviour ( which he did )
What has this got to with offering assistance or being a good human being?
When a tenant hits you in the face you don’t quote the the Bible and offer the other cheek you call the police. Yes, I’ve been assaulted and am speaking from experience.
What assistance do you think we should provide?
I had to lend him £300 for rent for the next landlord which I never got back . I also paid £5k to repair damages to my property which I didn’t chase because he would never have the capacity to pay it back . He gets a job when he needs a new place to live . Then goes on benefits because he couldn’t hold a job down . He had four jobs in one year . That’s not normal . That’s behavioural issues. He was NpD. He is exactly the immigrant that this government is targeting to remove! .
This is not a one off. This is a reality in this industry.
When your tenant is a drug addict what do you think the assistance will be spent on , rent or drugs? I housed a guy with a history of homelessness because I felt sorry for him . He was £3k in debt by the time his s21 notice came to date . I used to feel sorry for people,
Pity does not pay the bills.
I nearly lent a tenant money but his psychological support worker intervened , when I told her, and forbade it . She knew the tenant much better than I did . She realised although he had mental health issues he was not averse to manipulating it for his own personal gain .
Landlords are not the Samaritans , they are running a business. Based on your ideology people should go shopping and only pay if they can afford it . If they can’t the shop owner should help them out because he should be a good human being and offer assistance. How does this mentality pay the overheads. Have you heard of shrinkage? Rent arrears and damages are the shrinkage of this industry. It’s stealing ! If you do it in a shop it’s criminal . If it’s rent arrears it’s a civil matter. What’s the difference ?
Perhaps you should speak to support workers , not landlords, who’ve seen a real change in human behaviour over the last decade.
I know I have seen a change in behaviour in the last ten years.
This is why I used the term delusional . I’m not name calling . I feel you that you really have no idea of what you write about.
If you want to understand this behaviour go out on the shop floor and ask to meet landlords at the end of their tether at the end of a tenancy . You still wouldn’t understand until the money comes out of your pocket . Then see what happens to your ideology. There was a landlord who was actually made homeless helping out a scam tenant with a phoney cancer diagnosis. He sold his home to help this mans con aka cancer .
You have to walk a day in a man’s shoes before you can judge them
‘but given the responses here I’m not sure it happens consistently, or often.’
Who are you to pass judgement?
People are not born cynical . They are made cynical by their environment.
A lot of landlords start out an idealist but everyone wises up sooner or later . Pity disappears as your financial reality sets in .
I understand you’ve had a difficult time. It seems to me you’ve been too nice and gone too far the other way. It was never your responsibility to offer money that is crossing a boundary.
When I say support, I simply mean offering to strengthen your tenants voice with the council should they wish. In the case if a s21 asking other known landlords if they have anywhere to move on to (assuming it’s no fault) I don’t mean paying for things.
It’s interesting that in each of your posts the tenant is said to have some sort of ancronym wrong with them (internally located problems) but you are so negative because of bad experiences (externally located problems).
I’m sorry for your bad experiences, but if it makes you feel so awful someone said about investing in gold? Many landlords on here have had predominantly good experiences. It could be your area, but maybe going into things with so much negativity makes it difficult to have a positive relationship with the tenant. I hope things get better for you whatever you choose to do.
I don’t really want to argue further about whether being a landlord is good or not, or whether tenants are good or not, people are people. Slightly messy, uncoordinated at times and chance deals a hand too. I am collating opinion, but I think our conversation has run aground because it’s just about how awful the job is and I’m afraid I’m not a therapist.
Coming back to your original aim of wanting to dispel myths and prejudices with actual data, what is your view on the data presented within the governments English private landlord survey 2024, which presents tenants on benefits as more than double the risk of rent arrears than those who arnt? (48% vs 22%)
Yes I read that and thanked/noted it. It’s great to have figures.
I haven’t read the document yet so can’t effectively respond. It’s unfortunate as not what I would have predicted. For me there are a number of factors I’d like to check, but for this audience they might be deemed nit picky and that’s fine.
For me forming an opinion, I’d like to factor:
Which years: (I know it’s 2024 but is that when the figures relate or when asked)
Did the early UC roll out impact the figures?
Did covid have an impact?
Does it delineate between people on legacy working benefits and non working benefits?
Is it able to pick out working UC from non working?
Is it benefits at tenancy start or benefits at tenancy end/point of arrears?
I’d also like to know what the spread of percentage rent arrears are. Eg. Theres a difference between being a week late and being months late, but if they still count as arrears it could be possible to skew the image in a different way to the reality.