Landlord subtly threatening eviction

Tenant Discussion
21

You urgently need to get advice from Citizens Advice or Shelter.

It is a criminal offence not to have a gas safety certificate. If he has never had one done since you moved in he is a very dodgy landlord to say the least.

If reported this could have very serious repercussions for him. You must let him do it the certificate though - if you don’t he might claim that was why it wasnt done in the past. In any case, you have children and it is for their and your safety.

I am a landlord, not a tenant, and I do not know of any landlord personally that would operate like this. He must be the dregs. His contract is unlikely to be valid either.

If you do decide to leave, you should demand your repair costs back.

You must seek advice.

David

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22

Hi i have not read all the replies, but on the number i have read i have not seen any one advise that instead of listening to Chinese, myself before i got worried i would have asked the landlord in writing what his intensions are.
But what would really concern me is that there has been no CP12 carried out for around 11 years. This is disgusting. Firstly this is against the law and secondly this landlord has no regard for the safety of his tenants.
I agree with some of the comments on here i have never seen or heard of a tenancy that renews yearly every tenancy i have used ( 3 different ones over the years ) normally would be a 6 months short term then converts to a rolling tenancy. i would see if this tenancy is legal or some thing the landlord has put together himself.

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Thank you, David.

Yes, I really appreciate your advice and I will seek further advice. I did engage with a lawyer earlier this week and I have to balance that expenditure with other immediate costs I have at the moment.

Of course, I need to get this done to clarify all the legal implications and I know it’s a priority.

Thank you for your counsel and your patience as I’ve explained this awful situation. You really do make forums like this one incredibly worthwhile.

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Hi Malcolm

Thank you for your help.

Yes, I think the tenancy was cobbled together from lawdepot.co.uk - you can see that in the copy I have. Some of the terms are americanisms such as referring to the ‘sidewalk’.

I think I already know his intentions; he’s wanting to see this place. That’s fair enough but I’m trying to evaluate the exact length of time I have to find alternate accommodation for my family. It’s a rural location with very little on the market (for rent).

With all the dramas I’ve had living here, having to repair the roof, guttering, every valve and tap in the house, replace washing machines, dryers and saniflos, replace the front door etc … Along with no GCC, I would expect a level of courtesy which has hitherto been absent from any other interactions.

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I’d recommend the ferre source of advice first. The likes of Shelter will have a helpline you can phone

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26

Speak to your council. They have the legal support to assist you. Understand your legal position first then speak to your landlord. Shelter also love to go after landlords

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Hi Petefonda. I am a landlord. I’m going to try to help because I think any landlord who doesn’t do annual Gas Safety checks ought to be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail.

Numbers in [square brackets] refer to my sources below.

I agree that the term clause in your tenancy agreement is unusual.

Which is the Act to which it refers? The wording suggests the Act is defined somewhere in the agreement. We mustn’t assume which Act is referred to, we need to know.

Has any additional documentation been created in relation to the tenancy, particularly (but not exclusively) in connection with rent reviews?

I’m going to assume that you have an Assured Shorthold tenancy (I haven’t seen anything to suggest otherwise).

In any dispute concerning the forced ending of an AST there are two questions to answer: “What does the agreement say?” and “What does the law say?”

Your agreement seems to say quite clearly that you had a periodic tenancy from the beginning. From Shelter: ‘There are two forms of periodic tenancy: those which are periodic from the outset without a fixed term; this can only apply to tenancies created on or after 28 February 1997…’ [1]. I think yours is one of these.

What is the term of each period? Is it 12 months (’…continuing on a year-to-year basis’) or monthly (the rent interval)? I think the wording makes the period 12 months. The common law rule for a notice to quit for a tenancy from year to year is that it must give at least 6 months notice. I know it’s been suggested above that 12 months notice is needed but I think it’s 6 months [2]. Such a notice to quit does not itself end a tenancy protected by the Housing Acts 1985, 1988 and 1996, but read on.

Assuming you have a periodic Assured Shorthold tenancy and that none of the Housing Act 1988 section 8 [3] or schedule 2 [4] conditions apply, then s21(4) applies, and this states:

'…a court shall make an order for possession of a dwelling-house let on an assured shorthold tenancy which is a periodic tenancy if the court is satisfied—

(a) that the landlord… has given to the tenant a notice in writing stating that… possession of the dwelling-house is required by virtue of this section; and

(b) that the date specified in the notice under paragraph (a) above is not earlier than the earliest day on which… the tenancy could be brought to an end by a notice to quit given by the landlord on the same date as the notice under paragraph (a) above.’ [5].

If you have an annual periodic tenancy the earliest day on which the tenancy could be brought to an end by a notice to quit given by the landlord is 6 months after the notice is given. This is regardless of the changing rules about notice periods because of Covid.

If I was in your landlord’s position I think I might give two notices, a notice to quit (6 months) and a notice to comply with s21 to expire the day after. But I’m not sure about that, it would require careful thought.

Do NOT pay for advice from a solicitor who doesn’t thoroughly understand this stuff. Your average solicitor who does divorces and wills and conveyancing will just regurgitate their standard boilerplate advice to Housing Act tenants.

If you are able to have a dialogue with your landlord you could suggest that if he wants to sell the property there is a market for Buy to Lets with sitting tenants, especially where you can provide evidence that you have been a good tenant for many years. But don’t tell him anything about how to serve a notice. Let him find that out for himself, and he may well cock it up. Many landlords do, especially if they are the kind who download standard forms from the internet.

[1]Shelter Legal England - Assured shorthold tenancy definition - Shelter England

[2] Shelter Legal England - Tenancies and licences ended by landlord notice to quit - Shelter England [ see source #7 Doe d Peacock v Raffan [1806] 170 ER 812; Parker d Walker v Constable [1769] 95 E.R. 913 - you can see this rule goes back literally centuries]

[3] Housing Act 1988

[4] Housing Act 1988

[5] Housing Act 1988

Other sources:

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28

Perrrygrovefarm, the point is the landlord wouldn’t be giving a common law notice to quit because the tenancy is still assured. It would need to be a s21 or s8 under an appropriate ground. That’s why I’m suggesting that they are bound by legislation to give one full term of the tenancy, ie 12 months. As I said, I can’t be 100% certain of this, so if you can site a source saying otherwise, I would welcome a link to it.

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Thank you so much for this comprehensive reply. I will look in to every element you discuss here. Incredibly generous of you write such a thoughtful reply. I’ll update accordingly.

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30

Thank you. I’ll update when I can to let you know how this has progressed. Please bear with me.

31

Thank you David - I know we don’t have clarity yet but the discussion here is incredibly helpful. Thanks for all your help.

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I agree that a NtQ isn’t really needed - I daresay common law notices to quit are now otiose for Housing Act tenancies, but nothing in the Housing Acts prohibits the serving of NtQs, and what I said was that if I was in this landlord’s position I might serve one. But that’s just me, I very much doubt anyone else would do it.
EDIT (this got deleted somehow): As to the length of notice I still think 6 months is right, for the reasons I gave, but I’m not dogmatic about it. There might be scope to argue that 12 months is needed.
I think there is potential for this particular landlord to foul up whatever notice they do serve and there will be plenty of time after service for Petefonda to decide what best to do. Possibly “do nothing and wait and see” will be the right response. What sort of time is likely to elapse between service of a valid notice and a court order for possession? One can envisage a long delay before the matter comes before the court, at which point the tenant can argue that the notice is invalid, if that is the case, and the landlord would have to start all over again.

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As far as I’m aware, a common law NTQ from the landlord of an AST would have no effect.

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Being a LL and dealing with all the changing legalities is very hard, we can do without people like you calling him a Moron.

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David, you are right about an NtQ not having any effect. I only said that I (personally) might serve one. It would just be for old times sake, it probably would do no harm (the s21 notice would simply override it), but it would confuse the heck out of most CAB advisers or young solicitors.

I suspect we are now angels dancing on the head of a pin but it keeps one sharp. And this has prompted me to look at my very dusty copy of Riddall on Land Law (1988 edition), pp262-4. Very out of date but one of the best and most readable law texts I have ever owned, and probably still relevant. ‘A periodic tenancy is one which continues indefinitely until ended by proper notice by either party. The length of the notice… [depends]… on the form that the periodic tenancy takes: a weekly lease can be terminated by giving a week’s notice, a monthly lease by giving a month’s notice, and so on, the notice expiring in each case at the end of a completed period. If neither party gives notice the lease continues for ever… if the tenant dies the lease passes under his will or intestacy. This might suggest that the lease is of indefinite duration and thus runs counter to the rule that a lease must be of fixed duration. However this is not so as the law regards the lease as being for a fixed period of, eg in the case of a yearly lease, one year. If no notice to terminate is given, with the result that the lease continues, the law regards the lease as being for another fixed period of one year, and so on… A periodic lease may be created expressly where some term such as ‘yearly lease’… is used; or where more informal words such as ‘from year to year’ are used.’

That is exactly the situation in this case.

Caveat: we have not seen the whole agreement. Always very dangerous to do anything without reading the whole thing. Is there anything in the agreement about giving of notices, because Riddall reminds us that ‘a lease to A determinable on the giving of 6 months’ notice creates a six monthly lease.’

Does the payment of rent monthly affect this? No. Riddall says that one can only refer to ‘the period with reference to which the rent is measured’ in the absence of express words, which we have, creating a particular form of lease.

So, remembering that s. 21(4) Housing Act 1988 provides that the landlord’s notice cannot bring the lease to an end earlier than a notice to quit, we turn finally to the question of when that earliest date is. Riddall confirms what has been said above: ’At common law, in the absence of a contrary intention, a yearly tenancy can be determined only on the anniversary of its commencement, and to achieve this either party must give at least half a year’s prior notice.'

So I think the landlord must give his notice no later than 11:59am on 1 October 2021 if they want to determine this lease on 1 April 2022. If the landlord (who I hope is not reading this board) misses that deadline he cannot recover possession earlier than 1 April 2023.

But sauce for the goose is also sauce for the gander. If the tenant wants to bring this lease to an end the same rules apply. I am sure many other landlords have the same experience as me, a tenant thinking they can give a month’s notice and walk away from a tenancy before their term has expired. No they can’t, and I always demand compensation if the tenant wants to leave early. For so long as this tenant wants to keep this property as their home they have excellent security of tenure. But if they ever decide to move they are going to have to plan very carefully.

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You may well be right and I had looked at s21(4)(b), but I’m not sure it helps us much since it sets the lower limit, (namely the max 6 months required by a NTQ), but not the upper limit.

I am happy to concede that I simply don’t know the answer and it may well be 6 months. For safety sake that’s probably what the OP should assume anyway.

37

I really appreciate all the discourse. It helps (even if at this stage we don’t know how definitively) because at least in the short term, there’s the possibility that I have plenty of time to find a suitable property.

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Petefonda -

It does seem that the board consensus is that you are safe until 1 April 2022 at the very earliest. And maybe longer. We might be wrong but you can follow the links you have been given and make a judgement for yourself. I think we have answered your original question. If the landlord serves you with a s21 notice expiring earlier than that date I suggest you take a snapshot of it, and the whole of your tenancy agreement, and put them on here.

Now, some important questions.

Are you certain you want to rent? Could you buy? Could you buy the property that is currently your home?

It’s none of my business of course, and I don’t want you to answer on here, I really don’t, but if I was in your position it’s a strategy I would consider. ​I think that if I was in your position I would ask myself what I want to achieve for my family, and then consider how to do this, and if by 2 October 2021 no notice has been given by the landlord I think I would feel pretty confident that I have about 18 months to decide what to do and get everything organised. Always bearing in mind that you are bound by the same rules for notice as your landlord, unless you can open a dialogue and reach mutual agreement about what to do next. That is always the best way. Always. If more people adopted that approach we would live in a much happier world.

Good luck (and make sure that gas safety check is carried out)!

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39

PerryGroveFarm

Thanks for a thoughtful message.

Yes, I’d like to buy and be more secure. I had a severe respiratory illness and tumour caused by it throughout 2019 and after receiving the all clear in March 2020, had to shield for over 15 months because of my elevated risk of Covid. This 2 1/2 year period seriously depleted my savings. However, I’m
naturally optimistic and think I could restore some financial stability and save a deposit over the next 12 - 18 months.

When I approached the Open Rent forum, I was initially looking for some assurance that I couldn’t be ‘kicked out’ in the short term. To hear the landlord so casually throw these terms out was incredibly concerning.

I owe everybody who has contributed to this debate a debt of gratitude. I now know that in the immediate term, I am quite secure.

You have all helped make me steadfast that this insecure position can be resolved ~ and with a longer term view of acquiring our own place. It’s been convenient here but having paid over £70’000 in rent, on a property that was purchased by the landlord for £95’000 in 2010, I feel like it’s time to look after my family. What a fool I’ve been.

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renting for so long does not make you a fool… It can be hard to get on the property ladder Paying rent and saving for a home is not easy

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