Can you please provide views on this following scenarios?
My flat is in a converted victorian building which has 4 flats, all of the flats are freeholders and we hired a building management to manage the building.
The basement flat has requested extensive work through the building management to be done for a leak from the terrace roof into their flat, within 2 years ago when the leak happened and they were also doing their entire flat renovation, they requested the entire building to contribute over 20,000 pounds to re-do their roof at the time based on their surveyor’s recommendation that the roof had structure defect , and we had no choice but to contribute at the time. The builder they hired to do the work who was also doing their flat renovation and gave a 2-year guarantee.
Right now the basement flat is asking the entire flat to contribute to the repair of leak into their flat through the terrace roof again with extensive work including replacing their entire ceiling and adding ventilation which was already added based on their original quote provided from their builder in 2024.
Please can you share your view if you had any similar expereince- are the rest of the building obliged to contribute to their extensive repair request? Surely if there is a leak, then repairing the leak spot should be sufficient to stop leak, as was done for other leaks in the building including my own flat, never had I requested such extensive repair of leak to my own flat. Also given their builder’s 2-year guarantee, surely the builder is obliged to come back to fix any issues instead of them asking the rest of the building to contribute huge sum for their extensive repair work required?
Erm the building mgt should be able to tell you what are your responsibilities as freeholders and what is for the leaseholder - otherwise what are you paying them for? Get your own surveyor or builder to look (or ask Mgt Co to do so).
If Leak is due to poor original workmanship or failed materials then builder ought to repair under gtee but you are paying building mgt Co to check gtee. If storm damage etc might be covered by building insurance again they should check for you the policy and advise (but make sure they don’t try to claim as yet. )
If ventilation in original quote and paid for by you all you clearly shouldn’t have to pay for it again -leaseholder should sort with their builder
Query why a leak has damaged the whole ceiling- when was leak detected - if leaseholder didn’t deal promptly and let water damage spread to the whole ceiling, insurance won’t pay up for the consequent damage due to neglect and nor should you
Thank you very much David240 for the very thoughtful and kind advice.
As far as I am aware, there is no damage to their ceiling, the original video they sent out back in December was some minor water dripping through their alarm in the ceiling.
The sad truth is: people from this flat are not reasonable at all, every time there is a leak into their flat, they will request very extensive work demanding replacing their ceiling etc.
The current building management was brought in by them and the building management has always sided with them.
Roofing materials should last longer than 2 years .Most EPDM or fibreglass resin materials have manufacturers guarantees of over 20 years if supplied and fitted by a certified installer. What type of roofing membrane was installed? . If you all paid for it once ,why are you expected to pay again. Ask about the installers credentials and if they don’t check out , whoever’s job it is to ensure work on the building is carried out correctly hasn’t done their job. Those credentials should have been enquired about before work commenced.
In the quote the builder did install fibreglass resin and has advised it should last 15-20 years if looked after properly.
Sadly regarding builder credentials -the rest of us did not have any involvement in this as it was entirely hired by the basement flat as the builder was the same who was doing the renovation for their flat at the same time. Sadly the previous building management was not willing to get involved in this work at all, and hence has been replaced by the current building management who only came onboard after the work was finished.
I have asked the question back to the building management about the builder’s guarantee and that I do not believe the rest of the building should contribute to this repair this time given it is still within the builder’s guarantee period.
I am in awe as why the basement flat is asking the rest of us to contribute to such extensive repair again given they shall be aware of the guarantee from their own builder.
@Helen2023 if there was insulation between roof and ceiling and it got wet due to leak it might all need replacing. And water does spread. For a small leak dripping through hole where alarm is, fixing the hole in the roof should have allowed the plasterboard to dry out with time tho good to get the electrics checked. . Only if they let a large pool of water build up till the ceiling collapsed under the weight would a whole new ceiling be needed I’d expect.
At the very least you need a proper explanation of when leak detected and when subsequent quote, and multiple quotes for the repair works, and some options, as well as understanding why not covered by either builder’s gtee or insurance if that’s the case.
Talk to your other neighbours. As you are joint freeholders it will be hard for just one flat to force you to pay unreasonable repairs due to faulty work by the builder they appointed.
Some people also want everything perfect and new, not repaired (even tho with re skimming a ceiling after repairing the damp section with a patch, then redecorating will make it look as good as new) especially if others or insurance are paying, and most builders are happy to quote accordingly. They may have tried builder re gtee already and had no luck or builder could be a friend..
Exactly my thought - locating and fixing the leak spot should be sufficient, instead of ripping off the entire terrace and replacing their entire ceiling and adding new ventilation etc.
The building management has not mentioned a thing about guarantee after I have mentioned to them, and insurance as far as I am aware would not cover such event unless it is natural events like storm etc.
The builder at the time over charged, I am sure, for that amount of work to charge over 20,000 pounds was simply excessive. Not sure if the builder gave them any discount behind the scene for the renovation they did for their flat in the meantime. It all sounds very fishy.
The surveyor the building magement hired seems like a friend to theirs too and no doubt is siding with them to produce a so-called report to make the rest of us pay again.
The fact is the people living in this flat are so unreasonable that the previous owners living above them actually sold the flat as they did not want to deal with them anymore. This tells you the extent of their stubborness.
@Helen2023 well the mgt Co work for all of you and can be sacked if you and the other 3 flats decide that, irrespective of the bottom flat’s owners (formally it has to be joint but in practice they aren’t going to take legal action against other freeholders to protect their choice of mgt co)
How much will the further repair cost?
As a min the 4 top flats can ask the mgt Co to use a different surveyor and/or a different builder to provide options, ones whom you suggest and agree with the other flats, to avoid any conflicts of interest. And to get multiple quotes for the actual work.
However if you and the 4 other flats have given the mgt Co the power to act as freeholder on your behalf then until you remove them you may have little option but to pay up.
It is essential you check the lease. Plaster ceilings are not normally included in the freeholders responsibilities. The lease spells out who is responsible for what.
Given the roof was already replaced they can’t claim negligence against the freeholders, so I doubt that damage due to it now failing would be covered.
The leases I have seen mostly limit freeholders responsibilities to major structural elements, roofs (sometimes but not always including roofs that just serve one property), common areas, major walls (but not necessarily partition walls within a flat) Windows are often down to leaseholders.
@David89 that’s true but where damage to a leaseholder’s property /contents is caused by a fault in the structural elements (such as a leaky roof) which the freeholder I s responsible for, I think the leaseholder would have a claim against the freeholder and the freeholder or the building insurance (or the trader responsible for the faulty roof work) would usually be liable.
Just like if a flat above floods my flat by letting the bath overflow and causes water damage to my flat, I have a claim against them.
I have been freeholder and a leaseholder. You need to read ALL the paperwork that relates to who pays for what. If a majority in a block want to form their own management company they can go down that route ,OR sack the current M C citing the faults. see . Leaseholder Advisory Service