My new tenants moved in February 2023. Soon after the previous landlord approached me with a CCJ showing my tenants had been evicted due to owing thousands. They had acquired my property using forget references, guarantor and using a false address, and this meant the Open Rent credit check didn’t find the CCJ.
I went to court to get possession due to acquiring the property by inducement using false information. The case has been deferred.
The judge said that the tenants were paying the rent (but had found a way not to have paid the deposit). They strongly indicated they would not grant the discretionary possession order as the tenants had small children and were paying the rent. They have a 2 year AST and it appears the judge and tenants feel they should remain.
Has anyone experience of a court claim outcome in similar circumstances?
I never expected the sympathy would be with the tenants having forged document and signatures.
that judge is a scumbag. So what if they have children … In worse crimes people who have kids have been let off a jail sentance. No punishment ,they will do it again and again
You should get a written notification of the decision. On that will be how to appeal the decision to another (circuit) judge on a point of law if you feel there has been an error (in law). Personally wouldn’t do it.
However if they fail to pay even one £ less than the rent, I’d go back to court with a s8 and argue “ex turpi causa” - the court cannot support an illegal act. That judge shouldn’t be able to fudge it like this one has.
You should have used s21
Unfortunately a 2 year AST was a bad idea. I’m a little intrigued by how they managed to give a false address and this wasn’t picked up on, as usually whenever I’ve had a reference done the addresses are generally cross referenced and other linked addresses are usually detected. It’s not a very good advert for Open rents reference service if it’s so easily defeated.
Just another horror story proving that OR checks are not worth it. They are not reliable.
The same with other serices. We ordered EICR and Gas cert wtih them, and it’s not worth it. These seemingly cheap companies string you along, change the dates several times, you wait for ages, then they find the ways to charge you much more. Or, and they don’t come on time.
With gas cert we waited till we had to start advertising, and the engineer still hadn’t been assigned. We had to urgently look for another one.
I would stick to basic advertising on the platforms with them.
Their last AST place via a letting agent, and used the same false address. They provided a relatives address, and the landlord reference from the relative was completely fake, and they forged the persons signature. I visited the relative and they confirmed that despite both myself and last landlord refs saying they had been resident from April 2016, they had never lived there.
The Open rent ref can only check for CCJs etc at the address given, so they knew what they were doing. The husband happens to work for an estate agents in Surbiton as a customer so appeared to be a good tenant, but clearly they have done this before with the last landlord. The day they left under the possession order they moved into my house.
The same relative was used for the fake guarantor document and they signed that she had been the witness. The work ref also came back with the same false address as he had given is own employer an address they did not live at. The credit check declaration was ticked to state they had no debts of CCJs, but they had at the time the previous landlords, and since then the Council used bailiffs after they owed them council tax.
The court hearing was deferred yesterday as they now have legal aid (which I guess means you and I are paying for that in taxes). The judge said that as they have paid the rent (but not the deposit), no money was owed and that in a hearing she would likely not grant possession as it is a discretionary ground.
That seems to say a lot about what is wrong with being a landlord these days.
If anyone is aware of these people in the Epsom area of where they lived before May 2020 I would be interested to know. I suspect there will be other victims.
Hi David. The answer is below in general comment.
I Have just had 3 gas certs in same building £100 the lot Came on time arranged myself
Wasn’t that address confirmed against electoral register or/and council tax register? We do checks through one LL association recommended source, and they check if it matches. If it doesn’t, for us it’s a red flag, and we are likely to reject such TT.
Open rent credit check does not seem to have mentioned the electoral register.
Hi Eman. You seem to know your stuff!
The defendants had given the court, nut not me, a defence document. I was only aware of this when we went into the hearing. The judge said she had only seen it. I am not clear about when this was submitted but I thought it might be within the 2 day deadline. As it was accepted I had not been served it I understand it should not have been referred to. The judge referred to it saying it was incorrectly filled out and not complete. She wrote a post it note on the top and started to say what was wrong with it then stopped and passed it to the CAB rep who had just met the couple. The judge referred to the document then saying that the couple had stated they were leaving in March and she said to me they are just looking for “more time” to find alternative accommodation.
Is this not against a point of law. The judge told me that I should negotiate with the paid and in her view let them stay until March. I said that they had already written giving me notice to leave in July and did not, and the previous landlord who was witness with me had an agreement via a solicitor he paid for and they ignored that agreement. The judge replied if they did not leave I should “get some legal advice”.
There was also possession for numerous breaches of the AST including not having paid the rent, writing a false defence document, for instance claiming there was a open police investigation into me for landlord harassment. In response to this the judge said “stick and stones…”.
The judge deferred referring to the Defence document and said it was for the defendants to have time to get legal advice and to submit a replacement defence.
I do not see how these actions are legal.
Any advice?
Regrettably I don’t know my stuff. I just have the scars.
To explain, you have to understand the processes at play here. A judge is master in their own court and have the duty to find facts (based on evidence) and apply the law. If you think they haven’t applied the law, you can appeal to a higher level judge - but there may be significant costs against you if you don’t win. As the other side had (I presume) the duty solicitor from CAB (or whoever has the contract) you are immediately at a disadvantage as the rep will know both the law and the judge’s ‘preferences’ (aka bias)
If you are a landlord, a judge will see you as running a business and would have expected business people (not just landlords) to have hired a solicitor. Some judges hate litigants in person (someone who represents themselves) as it takes time to go through the explanations of the law. The “sticks and stones” comment suggests she is one of those.
The next judge may be completely different but when you (have to) go back, you should hire legal help just in case you get her again.