Section 21 Thrown Out Because Gas Cert Not Has One Box filled In

Landlord Discussion Legal
1

I attended Shoreditch County Court last week and sat through a landlord trying to reocever his property

The judge rejected the Section 21 hearing and dismissed the claim on the basis that the gas safety certificate that was provided by the landlord “did not have the landlord name and address on it in the box”.

I have seen this myself where gas engineers rush off and dont fill in all the boring parts and only record the numbers on the certificate.

Counsel for claimant argued that it was obvious who the landlord is and then they turned to the legislation - In short legislation requires it

Landlord now has a 7K defendant (legal represetation) bill plus his costs plus a tenant who is angry and probably wont pay rent. Any section 8 claim (if rent is late) will no doubt be met with disrepair

If you are doing a section 21 make sure the gas cert is spotless fille dout

6 Likes
2

Its not just the GSC being filled in right ,you have to do everything else right too.
Right to Rent check
How to rent book ( latest version )
Deposit scheme information
Smoke Alarms checked on day tenancy starts.
Carbon monoxide alarm checked if you have a wood burning stove.
You need to get the tenant to acknowledge all these have been done by signing something or acknowledgement in an e mail.
This is why its best to keep tenants sweet ( eg not raising rent ,fixing things straight away )rather than upsetting them and then having to issue 21s .
A ‘good’ tenant can turn into your worst nightmare in the blink of an eye.

4 Likes
3

wise words right there

1 Like
4

My opinion of judges like this is that they are scumbags, just like scumbag solicitors and barristers who defend people they know are guilty.

2 Likes
5

If i was that LL, I’d sue gas engineer for costs associated with failed S21.

1 Like
6

You would not win anything from the gas engineer - He provided a service to test the boiler - He is not to blame that the certificate requires to be filled out every box and thoroughly because you might at some point in future need it for a section 21

I was well aware of the need to have the paperwork in good shape for a section 21 but I never thought a defence on the basis of the form missing something so obvious was going to result in this.

When a court orders a hearing at 10AM but does not start until 11AM does that give you the ability to sue the court manager ?

7

Not sure about that because if the gas engineer does not fill out that box, then who should? On the form the purpose is definitely for the gas engineer to fill it out.

1 Like
8

If you fill out the box yourself and re-serve it to the tenant prior to service of a s21, what do you think would happen?

9

Having seen similar cases, gas certificate not issued before occupancy but can be remedied if issued before new section 21. What would happen if there was no gas check at all? Does this mean no gas certificate could ever be produced, does this mean ll can never use section 21?

10

I believe that there has now been a couple of court cases that have confirmed the assumption of many lawyers after the Trecarrell House case that if there has been no gas safety check prior to the tenant moving in, there can never be a valid s21 notice.

1 Like
11

Definitely correct. No has certificate before move in means no section 21

Everything else can be remediated except no gas safety certificate before move in

2 Likes
12

Can a cert be re-issued by the gas safe engineer at a later date with the added address, keeping the original issue date?

14

This is diabolical. I’m pretty sure I have some properties where they have put the rental address instead of my home address.

Would issuing a new AST with “valid” cert resolve the problem?

If a cert is invalid for the purpose of a section 21 then is it invalid full stop?

15

Yes, if a gas cert doesn’t have the correct information its a breach of the 1998 Gas Safety Regulations as well as for s21 purposes. However, I can’t see anyone taking any action against a landlord for this health and safety breach.

As I said in the other post on this issue, I haven’t read anything that definitively prevents a landlord from amending an incorrect CP12 gas cert and re-issuing it to a tenant

16

My interpretation was that the original has engineer would have to reissue the certificate

One wonders what happens if the engineer has retired or you had an argument with him or he does not want to help

The courts have become so difficult to get tenants out now

17

If a landlord starts “amending” an issued gas safety certificate for the missing landlord details, then surely this calls into question the integrity of the certificate. What else may the landlord have “amended”? The date?

On my last gas safety, which I booked through Openrent, the gas engineer left the landlord section blank, then I was surprised when Openrent automatically uploaded it to the documents section of “My Tenancies” in this state. I went in, removed it, amended the original, and re-uploaded it. However, the tenant original copy still does not have landlord details written on. So, short of me going round to retrieve it from them and adding in the details, we now have 2 versions floating around. Probably Openrent need to inform all suppliers that they have to make sure this gets done.

3 Likes
18

I don’t think people realise the consequences of this until they need it

The gas safety form has to be filled in thoroughly with every bit of detail completed in

1 Like
19

Openrent are effectively charging for something they are not providing.

20

All the gas engineers (well most) are like this

Landlords need to insist on the certificate being filled out completely. Even a wrong name or missing postcode is going to invalidate it

21

The gas engineer in question should be reported to the gas safe register.
That is what these governing bodies are there for.
It will raise it with the engineer and remind their engineers of their responsibility.