I really need some advice … so I’m currently in the process of renting out my property and I’ve come to the part where I have to prove gas check etc I’m currently waiting for date via open rent so do I put in a date my tenant moves in because carn’t go any further or can I change it later once it’s done any help would be greatly appreciated
1 Like
you need that done before tenant signs contract because otherwise, you’ll never be able to evict them if you want to serve a Section 21.
Contact a gas engineer directly and get them to come asap.
I’m not sure what ‘help’ you need because you don’t actually ask a question but just describe a situation so apologies if I’ve not addressed your exact issue here
2 Likes
You do not have to’ prove’ gas check to Openrent. Their system asks for dates, and this is just so they can email near the expire date to promote their services. You can leave the dates blank.
You do of course need to have the check done before move-in date, but perfectly ok to proceed to sign contract beforehand.
1 Like
legit question: does it matter for S21 purposes if the T does not receive a GSC when they sign, but does get one before they move in?
My understanding is that re S21, a GSC must have been provided before or at the same time as the S21 notice, so it is not linked to any requirement to have provided it when they moved in.
The HSE says a GSC should be provided before a tenant moves in, and within 28 days of a new certificate being issued.
1 Like
I can’t remember the name of the landmark case that was linked to this issue but wasn’t it decided the gas certificate would be served in advance of contract
David will probably be able to elaborate
I don’t have it in my head anymore
We’ve def had conversations here about LLs finding themselves unable to ever serve an S21 because the T didn’t have one when they moved in so I’m not yet convinced @Karl11
If that’s the case, then I was curious as to which is the definitive point in time i.e. whether it’s signing or actually moving in.
Yes, let’s see what David says…
This is from Landlord law
It depends on whether you had actually got a gas safety certificate at the time the tenants first moved in or not.
If you did actually have the gas safety certificate at that time but just forgot to serve it, then the Court of Appeal decision in the case of [Trecarrel House ltd v Roucefield] provides that you will be able to serve your section 21 notice. So long as, that is, your gas safety certificate had been served first.
The case did not actually settle what happens, though, if you did not have a gas safety certificate at that time (ie when the tenants first moved in).
The assumption is that you will be permanently barred from using section 21. I am afraid the tenancy becoming periodic would not change this. Note that the Supreme Court did not allow an appeal in the Trecarrel case.
If you wish to evict your tenant you will have to find some other grounds on which to base your claim.
We have a free guide you can use to help you with this. If you want to find out more about the Trecarrel case, there is a video interview here with Justin Bates, one of the barristers in the case.
In Trecarrell House Ltd v Rouncefield the Court of Appeal has held (by 2 to 1) that a landlord who has failed to provide his tenant with a gas safety certificate before the tenant enters into occupation is not prevented from using s.21, Housing Act 1988 to recover possession so long as he remedies that omission before service of the notice.
1 Like
That’s correct. The Trecarrell case ruled that the GSC can be served at any point before the s21 notice without affecting it, provided a gas cert was in place before the tenant moved in.
1 Like
er… A_A says that S21 is not dependent on a GSC before occupation, David says it is.
So, which is it?
Or have I read your replies incorrectly?
I was literally quoting Justin Bates KC off
Landlord Law blog
As long as certificate was done before entry you can serve GSC before service of notice
1 Like
There is no contradiction between the two posts.
ah well that’s missing from the quote so it was ambiguous as to how it applied… which was why there appeared to be a contradiction.
Not having a valid GSC when the T moves in and failing to serve a GSC that was valid at time of check in are two different scenarios.
For clarity though, and in answer to my earlier question about the OP’s situation, does it matter if you do not have a valid GSC when the contract is signed? In other words, can the OP go ahead and get contract signed without a valid GSC as long as they then get one done before check in?
It was appealed by Trecarrell and found in their favour …
——
Court of Appeal overturned a previous ruling that a landlord’s Section 21 order was invalid if it had failed to provide a GSR prior to the tenant moving into their property.
In the case of Trecarrell House Limited v Rouncefield, the court ruled there is no time limit for serving existing tenants with a GSR and that as long as one is provided to the tenant prior to a Section 21 notice, the notice will be valid.
Source: Inside Housing (link pending so removed).
1 Like
See above post, Trecarrell appeal.
Quite a significant ruling.
can you spell it out for me? I’m none the wiser having read this thread. It doesn’t appear to answer my specific question.
It’s too specific for this to answer. I have always understood that one is required before date of move in, however appears that it does not invalidate s.21 regardless as long as one is acquired before the issuing of it.
Right… so in terms of the OP’s original query, we’re not able to say whether not having one at the point of signing the contract is potentially going to come back to bite her.
You do need a valid certificate when contract is signed
Legislation reads to serve in advance of contract
In this landmark case the s21 was thrown out because GSC was not served in advance of contract
The appeal overruled this
So as long GSC was done before tenancy started (but you forgot to serve it ) you can just serve it before s21
The appeal though does not answer other questions that Justin Bates KC raised in the blog which I didn’t copy and paste
1 Like