Good morning. I have tenants who have been difficult from day 1 (moved in 27th October 2023). They have consistently not paid rent and now owe over 2 months so have issued S21 and S8. I get the UC payments direct so majority of rent (less £125 pcm) comes to me. As I’m very wary about going down the court route of S8 (as I know it’s unreliable) I have issued a MCOL. The tenant has now sent an invoice out of the blue saying they spent over £800 on tidying up their back yard - the invoice is for small skip, topsoil, grass seed, paint and labour etc - basically making it more pleasant for themselves. He’s saying the yard wasn’t fit and was “dangerous” so he he had to do this work. I have photos and invoice from a local company I paid prior to the tenancy commencement for clearing the yard of all debris etc. The gate was also replaced. He never reported at any point that there were any issues with the back yard, never asked permission to do anything and certainly never produced any quotes for work or indeed (until now) an invoice. I suspect when he gets the money claim paperwork next week (did it yesterday) he may try to counterclaim for this £830 (its an invoice he’s made on Word for himself - no company or anything). My question is if what do I do about this if I do go to court? I have all the text conversations saved as PDF and obviously all emails although that’s not really how we communicate. I can obviously demonstrate theres been no mention of anything regarding the rear yard since they moved in. I haven’t acknowledged the invoice as I’ve just received it - do I just ignore at this stage?
To add, the tenants are a couple - she claims UC and he is working. They have a full, clean credit history and came with good references from a local, well established letting agent. They used the Reposit scheme (2 months rent) when they moved in so I have that to rely on once I get them out. So the MCOL and S8 I’m hoping are more of a tool to attempt to make them move on before they end up with bad credit references etc.
Thanks in advance xxx
I’d suggest replying that you have not authorised any work, so will not be considering the invoice. But for your records, should any corrective work need to be taken out, please can you provide the full invoice including the name and address of the company that carried out the work.
Or something to that effect.
And see if they wish to embarrass themselves further.
Thanks, the invoice has been sent from an unknown email (not from the tenants email) so I only noticed it in my junk mail. He has said in a text “shall I send through an invoice for the work I did in the garden…” which is the only reason I know it’s come from him - and it also proves by that statement he has never mentioned it previously. He also hasn’t even included the property address on the invoice so it could literally be from anyone for anything! It’s from an an email address using some invoice creating service (bookipi?) and calling himself TCS
Should I reply to the email saying something along the lines of “I have not authorised nor requested a quote for any work of this nature so I will be disregarding this invoice. I have had no correspondence with or had any business dealings with any company named TCS so please remove my email from your database and cease from contacting me further.”
I would document clearly in an email that this is the inventory on your arrival ( attach document and pictures).
Have you got any pictures from interim reports you can attach too?
At no point have you reported any of the said issues during your tenancy in writing or verbally.
I should be grateful if images of the issues ?
I shall not be reimbursing said costs.
If it goes to dispute send all your correspondence that you ever received and sms so that it can be seen there was no report
They will have to provide evidence to support this.
Thanks, I haven’t been in the property since they moved in as they’ve been missing rent from day 1 and it’s been somewhat difficult. This is a flaw I’ve found using Openrent to be honest. They signed the tenancy before paying any rent or deposit amounts. I only found out they had used Reposit after the fact. On the day of the tenancy start date they hadn’t paid anything so I obviously didn’t release the keys. At this point I just knew they were going to be bad news but couldn’t get out of the contract as they’d signed before any money had been paid. They made excuse after excuse asking if I could just give them the keys and they’d pay by x date. I tried to get out of the tenancy but Openrent said a contract had been signed so I was screwed. They’ve been a nightmare ever since.
I have been “monitoring” very closely as I saw red flags as soon as they hadn’t paid the rent by the move in date.
And I used to have a letting agency as I had had so many awful experiences using other agents. I like the Openrent process but think the big flaw is them signing contracts before confirming monies have been received.
If this is open rents flaw I suggest you make a complaint you have ended up significantly out of pocket
There is reference to the consumer trading act
I’ll try and find it if I get five
Ask open rent if they are going to reimburse you. If not take the issue to their redress scheme .
TBH all the estate agents here sign contracts without monies ( that’s how student let’s work)
I have an arrangement to use my own contract and only sign the day they move in
It’s forwarded by the estate agent for digital signatures
I just don’t do it myself and sign it all again in wet black ink on the day they arrive
I’m a bit puzzled by this. I’m 99% certain the tenancy is not valid without payment of rent. I am pretty sure I discussed this with open rent and they agreed.
It is how it operates with agents too.
The Reposit schemw only covers the deposit. You were under no obligation to hand over keys
1 Anyone can make an invoice up.
2 Where is their letter of authority from you to do these items? No authority, no contact, no payment.
3 where are the documents itemising the dangerous issues and how many times did they contact you - let them show you the evidence!
4 Your photo’s of the back garden should show the state of the garden, they should have signed the inventory with any comments re items requiring attention, broken or not there. If not done any thing broke after this is down to them.
5 I believe you need to be missing two full months non payments for s8, if UC are paying part of the rent you need to seek advice as the s8 may not be valid if claiming for not paying the rent, as I say I believe this is correct but will stand corrected.
6 beware if the council offer payments to help any gap as this could invalidate your s8.
7 s8 the judge may give 2-6 weeks for them to get out, if they do not comply, you need to pay for a bailiff
8 I do hope you have done your s8 right as many are thrown out for not being completed correctly, then you have to start again.
Once the s8 is done the tenant will have a ccj which will cause them all sorts of issues, including renting again. Why they put themselves through this is a mystery.
If you wish to pursue any outstanding costs - rent, court, admin, damages etc you can go back to the court and get a judgement against the tenant to pay (after the deposit has been taken into consideration) either in one hit, against their paid income or UC.
Yes, David, you’re right. But I wasn’t able to back out even though I knew from the minute they hadn’t paid the rent by the day of the tenancy start they were bad news. It was 4 or 5 days after that they eventually paid and I then had to hand the keys over.
If I hadn’t pre-signed the tenancy and was doing it in person, I would’ve called the tenancy off at that point.
I have triple checked everything regarding the S8. They owe in excess of 2 months rent even though UC are now paying majority (less £125). Even at that they haven’t paid the top up!
And yes, they haven’t mentioned doing anything to the back yard. He’s just decided that he would send an invoice now because I’ve issued the notices. It was just a concrete yard and he’s ripped up the old slabs, added a ton of topsoil and grass seed. I should actually ask him to put it back to how it was as I don’t want a garden to maintain in a 2 bed terraced house in the north end of Birkenhead!!!
Hi , Obviously a bad situation regarding the signing of the agreement etc but I was just wondering what the possible outcome would have been if you had not gone through with the tenancy because no payment had been received on the tenancy start date as stated on the agreement. Would this have been enough to legally void the agreement as no payment had been received on the actual date and so a breech of contract?.
Also you should definitely request the tenant puts the yard back to how it was before he carried out the alterations .
Thanks David.
I’ve been doing this for 22 years and have learnt to never ignore a gut feeling when it comes to tenants.
I met them at the property on viewing and they seemed fine. Proceeded with Rent Now and references and credit checks were all good.
OR created paperwork and I signed with a start date of 27th October. When it got to 26th and the money still hadn’t been paid I was getting the sinking feeling. OR sent an email on 27th saying not to release the keys as the money hadn’t been received.
I emailed the tenants through OR and messaged them and the excuses started coming. By now I absolutely didn’t want them to move in and asked OR if I could withdraw from it and they said no, their contract was signed. So with great regret, after 4 days of chasing for the money it was paid and I reluctantly handed over the keys. I had no choice.
If I’d have been doing it all myself, the minute they didn’t have the rent and deposit in my bank on time, I’d have told them the “deal was off”. No money had exchanged, no contract would’ve been signed and I’d have just gone to one of the other 4 people that had applied.
That’s why I won’t use Rent Now again - I can’t risk this again in the future.
I will meet at the property on the proposed move in day, and either have them bank transfer the rent an hour before (minimum) or I’ll buy a Sum Up machine and take it at the signing.
The deposit will be taken beforehand and lodged with My Deposits.
This is always how I’ve done it, but Rent Now was SO convenient and easy. It’s a real shame I can’t use it anymore.
It would be great to get Openrents legal position on this as it has lead to a tenancy that has been problematic and one that ultimately you had decided you did not want, for good reason as the tenants didn’t pay when they should have. Surely breeching the terms of the contract.
Maybe @Daz or another forum user who has experience of this , could explain the legalities surrounding this.
Same happened to me with Reposit. Open Rent keep it well hidden, so a tenant managed to slip through without paying a “proper” deposit. Thankfully she was a great tenant, so I didn’t have any issues. But, going forward, I ensure Reposit isn’t an option by unticking when submitting the contract.
I think Reposit is an awful idea. If there’s no skin in the game, bad tenants won’t care (note, I said “bad” tenants - not “all” tenants, because most are good).
Totally agree Russel, I didn’t even notice the Reposit stuff - my bad.
I just won’t use Rent Now again.
The tenants have obviously received their MCOL paperwork- they’ve been messaging like mad. He said “expect my counter claim”!
Would like to see what evidence he can magic up for that!