Retrospective Licence to Alter process

Landlord Discussion Repairs & Maintenance
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Following up on my previous thread, I’d very much appreciate help understanding how to go about getting Retrospective Licence to Alter from a freeholder.

I had gas engineers replace an old boiler with a new condensing boiler in a leasehold flat in a block with a freeholder landlord. The job was to take out the old boiler and put the new boiler in at the same location. I found out that the engineers had made external alterations - drilling a new flue, and adding a condensate drain pipe that connects to a downpipe. I didn’t expect them to make external alterations, they had not raised the intention or possibility with me beforehand, and I had not gained prior consent for these (and my lease requires the landlord’s consent for external alterations). The engineers are Gas Safe registered.

I would appreciate information about the best process to now follow - I’ve tried searching online a lot but am still very unclear about it. Any insights into any of the following would be much appreciated.

Should I contact the landlord explaining what has happened and asking for a Retrospective Licence to Alter ASAP? Or would it be wise to seek legal advice first?

Do I need a solicitor in this process? Or at what point would it make sense to engage a solicitor?

My understanding is that it’s possible in principle for the freeholder to require that the works are undone. Then the flat’s heating system would not work, unless an alternative option were put in place. The flat is rented out and its occupants include young children. Is there a way to be able to ensure that the heating system can continue being used until an agreed solution is in place?

Is it possible to give any idea of how large my costs may end up being? E.g. from any similar past cases?

I expected that the engineers would inform me and ask my permission before making external alterations. If I have to pay costs for the Retrospective Licence to Alter, do I have any grounds for reclaiming all or part of those costs from the engineers?

If the gas engineers didn’t act improperly, then when replacing a boiler, what process are leaseholders expected to reasonably go through to ensure there is not an accidental breach of the lease?

Thanks for any help you can give.

Boiler installers drilled new flue without freeholder permission
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condensing boilers must be connected in this manner or in a way that the slightly acidic water is safely out of the way. You want to open a can of worms? Leave well alone ,this is not a structural alteration

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Hi Colin - my original reply seems to have been held up in moderation, perhaps because I included links.

Do you mean I shouldn’t raise it with the freeholder?

The lease says not to make “structural or external alterations” - my reading is that a condensate pipe would come under this.

Other articles I’ve read seem to recommend being forthright with the freeholder. Though they may be from solicitors who could be biased. I found a case of someone being taken to court over a condensate pipe that was installed without permission, which seems more likely to happen if it was discovered rather than disclosed. And it also seems like known breaches of the lease need to be disclosed upon sale.

So this makes me wary of just leaving it. The pipe is quite visible, albeit on the second floor, and it seems like there’s a fair chance the freeholder would notice it if they visited.

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Freeholders are entitled to charge unlimited amounts for retrospective consent involving a breach of lease, so this could be an expensive option.

When you come to sell the property, you could do so with a relatively cheap indemnity insurance policy to cover this alteration. However, you would not be eligible for such a policy if you have brought the issue to the freeholders attention.

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@LearningAsIGo

I agree with others here. You have not made a large or structural alteration best not to involve solicitors or freeholder at all.

Get something in writing from the boiler installers saying why they had to create a hole for new flue in a different place. And from you to them thanking them noting it was done during installation and you weren’t consulted in advance. Then you have a contemporaneous written record of what happened and why in case you ever need it.

Unless the new flue is in some way unsightly then if you brick up old one all you’ve then done is move a flue and for good reason- to allow new central heating to work. Why would any freeholder object. So long as it doesn’t affect structural integrity or materially affect appearance they won’t care. It won’t affect anything for their responsibility to maintain outside fabric nor the property value (when leases expire). Your lease probably says you have to maintain your property and keep it in good repair which includes replacing heating systems when needed and heating the place. So what was done was necessary for you to meet your obligations (also as a LL to provide a habitable property it will need working heating so you have those legal obligations too)

Check your lease and see if freeholder meets every one of their responsibilities and other legal responsibilities -some properties have clauses saying freeholder must redecorate externally every 4 or 5 years.. in practice with modern paints this is unnecessary and extra unnecessary costs are not then passed on to the leaseholders. Has freeholder done and maintained a fire risk assessment and an asbestos survey covering roof and communal areas and external fabric ? Does freeholder test alarms regularly and keep a log of the tests etc etc.

Good luck

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Thanks for those perspectives.

I worry that the condensate pipe is a bit too conspicuous to hope that it’s not spotted - the freeholder does visit the property from time to time. Here’s a photo I was sent - it’s the horizontal black pipe on the 2nd floor. Any thoughts?

External post-repair 17-12-25 2
External post-repair 17-12-25 21200×1600 350 KB

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is the boiler in kitchen or bathroom?

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Neither, it’s in its own small cupboard next to the entrance hallway.

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the reason i ask is that the pipe can go into an internal waste pipe or trap. But not so here.

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I would suggest you delete the photo if you are still considering your options.

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the flue is coming thru the wall very close to the soffit of the roof edge. Maybe there should be a metal sheet above the flue as protection for the soffit? I have a feeling that there is a reg for it , but cannot remember, and what about the gases going over the roof and thru the roof window. Have you checked all this out?

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@LearningAsIGo again get in writing from boiler installers the reason they drilled a hole and put the condensate pipe outside instead of to an internal pipe in your flat (as presumably old boiler condensate pipe did), and confirm back in writing they didn’t ask you. Installers lIkely don’t waste time drilling holes and putting pipes on wall outside if they can easily use an existing internal pipe.

Definitely don’t bother freeholder with it. It’s a small pipe it’s not structural. It isn’t ugly or any more noticeable than the flues or the downpipes. It’s not painted bright pink. Why on earth would freeholder object? It’s a small pipe.

Worst case freeholder objects you explain it was installed by gas safe competent boiler installers. Unlikely freeholder will complain if it was done for a sensible reason. If they have a genuine objection to it for a legit reason and boiler installers have done something the wrong way then you can always get somebody re route the pipe to one of your internal pipes and repair/brick the hole. Boiler installers will have professional insurance to cover problems caused by their work so you could discuss with them sorting if such a situation arose.

Freeholder won’t want to start having legal or other disputes over such a minor affair they want as little hassle as possible and just to collect their annual service charge and make a profit on that and whatever external maintenance they do. If it doesn’t interfere with that why will they spend time on it.

Also depends on relationship with freeholder (If you had a tenant who caused damage to your flat repaired it properly and it made no difference for any future tenant you’d probably complain to them at next inspection that they should have told you when damage happened (so you could have organized repairs yourself) but would you tell them they were in breach of tenancy agreement and charge them? Probably not unless you already had a bad relationship with them.)

Good luck

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@LearningAsIGo ps on side of velux window/skylight above (both the open one and the other two next to it) there seems to be some moss growing so water/moisture settling there allowing moss to grow. Perhaps a problem with whatever is sealing the window? Might be worth looking at to prevent more serious problems. Or something to ask the freeholder about re maintenance of the roof as that’ll be their responsibility (you can offer access via the skylight for someone to take a closer look).

@Colin3 may be able to comment on likely cause

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i thought that moss was a hedgehog!!. Moss just grows anywhere , usually the shady side of a roof. Skylight does look close enough to the gutter to clean out with a garden trowel gaffer taped to a length of timber. I have done this on my roof.

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