Hi Prafula, thanks for your contribution. I am really sorry to hear you had a bad experience, it’s very shocking. You would think a professional graduate would behave in a good way, wouldn’t you.
I did contact the Tenant’s employer. The Tenant’s work is apparently first class, he behaves superbly at work. But outside work he is a very different person, and he keeps the two sides of himself separate.
When I interviewed him in July, this Tenant gave me all his employer’s details and said check me out. But a few weeks later, when the problems started, he blocked me from contacting the employer and he threatened me if I did so. So I’m not able to go back to the employer and tell them what is going on. I’ve been gagged. I think the employer totally needs to know, don’t you? But it seems impossible to tell them…
Just an idea, try calling Anthony at ARC Collections in Derbyshire. He’s managed a couple of evictions & reclaimed a lot of money for me. Theres no need for a local representative, just a good one. He specialises in evictions & claims & is reasonably priced.
Check this out first, but I don’t think monitoring a property you own constitutes illegal behaviour. You’re watching the property, not the person. A little distant monitoring may provide you with an opportunity to call the police to catch individuals in the act of illegal behaviour. Only do this if you can make a place that creates a safe distance though.
I don’t really know how you could use this thought, but chew it over. If this person is renting a house to take drugs, he obviously lives elsewhere. Who is he hiding his actions from?
Knowing who his employer is will help too. Getting a legal attachment to earnings for an address his employer doesn’t recognise will put him in an uncomfortable position. Should he get fired, you probably won’t get back rent, but will you anyway? It seems the main need is to get him out so you can move on.
The important thing is to sever all personal contact, on the grounds of fear for personal safety. Let the professionals deal with this. It won’t be a quick process, but whilst he sees you being agitated or afraid, his confidence will be boosted & his behaviour is unlikely to change.
It’s clear to me that his actions were intentional from day 1. No amount of involvement by you personally will change this. He’s clearly chosen you as someone he feels is vulnerable & therefore sees bullying tactics as the way to win. He knows it won’t last forever, but it’s your job now to take action in the most efficient & legal way to combat this.
Think we all feel for you it’s really unbelievable what the Council are putting you through on top of everything else.
I don’t believe what the council are telling you is true. Of course you need photos and are entitled to them. What about the Anti-Social Behaviour Officer at your council? Will they help you?
I had a bit of hassle from the council when our tenant got malicious and it is intimidating to have the council against you - especially when you know it should be the other way round.
If here’s no lock on your front door, if you didn’t take any steps to fix it and people got in and ruined your house (ironic when you already have someone doing that) surely the insurance company would refuse to shell out because of your negligence as a landlord in immediately securing your property?
I would not worried about if people tried to threaten me.
You could say that to his employer that the charter reference has given to you is not same what you are experiencing of him etc.
Even I was told by my that tenant that how dare I spoke to his employer especially directly to his boss. Also his employer who invested money in him got worried and asked me how did I find out his direct contact number.
Some tenants think that they would get away when their landlord is a lady and especially with me I am a small person. If they tell you don’t do it and if you don’t then they think they are in control. But when you know know you are right and make sure you keep all proof and please communicate only by emails or text As it can be use as evidence but not phone calls.
I wish we do have register of the tenants where tenants have to register and landlords get access of it. I am sure that tenants won’t register but the lands should able to register at beginning of the tenancy.
I wish Openrent should able to start for their landlords and tenants.
It would help for both tenants and landlords even they charge a small amount of annual fees to landlords.
We have to take any good an bad experience with tenants as a lesson to learn and also a training of your work experience. Then try to put in practice and adapt and make changes when you we have next tenant to avoid the problems.
That’s the way I look and move on with without forgetting about bad and good tenants experience in life.
Dear “Phil”, you give me hope.
You make a lot of excellent points here, food for thought.
I do now believe I was targeted (or at least firmly latched onto, once the Tenant knew who I was). I’m well-known in my field, I have very little money (my profession doesn’t pay much), but from my public profile some people might think I am loaded. (I wish!)
Yes I think the Tenant’s actions were intentional from Day 1 or, if not, from 3 weeks into the Tenancy, when he seems to have had a huge crisis in his personal life (which the Police are looking into). And yes, he’s decided that bullying me and threatening me and bringing in the Council is the way to shove me away.
You intelligently ask “who is he hiding his actions from?” and my educated guess is 1. his employer (he desperately wants/needs his job), and 2. his elderly mother who’s blind and who seems to be well-regarded in the community. But employer most of all - this is the best & most secure job he’s had so far, and employment means money. He’s not been furloughed, he has a solid salary, but he’s still refusing to pay any rent. Maybe he can’t? - if the money is going elsewhere…
It’s good to know that I can use an eviction agent from any area. Please can you explain this attachment of earnings process to me? It’s not something I have any experience of.
Bless you x
Hi Prafula
You sound like a very brave person.
Yes, life is full of both good and bad things, and we learn new things every day, and sometimes they are painful.
I am learning a lot from this difficult experience. I am shocked that someone managed to trick me, when I try to be so careful.
I agree, there definitely needs to be a register of bad Tenants. Open Rent needs to have a register, so that Landlords can know who to avoid. It seems essential. (My Tenant could approach any Landlord today, and there’s currently nothing to stop him.)
What can we do, to try and get a “Bad Tenant” register created?
Hi “Mr T”.
I’m glad you feel that everyone can see I’m trying to do my absolute best.
You have to take advice from people (and sometimes that advice is wrong, even with professionals) - but I always take advice from more than one source and I check things out, I never act alone.
Councils. Phew. We could all write a book, I’m sure. I’ve had a huge tangle with a Council before, they spent £42,000 on legal fees, I fought them and I won!! And I embarrassed the London barrister they used, it serves him/them right. The judge told the Council to back off because they were wrong. So I’m brave too - but the horror of having to do this, and having to spend years doing my own legal work was very stressful. (I can’t afford a barrister myself.)
I’ve found that some Council workers can try to act beyond their ability…they seem to love the sense of power, but they don’t back it up with proper knowledge and it can cause us members of the public a huge amount of trouble.
Now, you ask ‘where is my Tenant today’? I wish I knew. Local people are (carefully) making enquiries. It appears that the Tenant’s son suddenly had to leave his own rental at the end of July, and all the son’s possessions got dumped in my house (where they still are). Son is also being investigated by Police…
I’m no expert in the legal sense. A court has the power to make an attachment to earnings if it is deemed he can’t or won’t pay you what is owed. Theres 2 parts to going through the process, possession & claim. They don’t happen at the same time. A good collection / possession agent will best advise you regarding the finer detail and processes. I personally would stay away from the ones seen on TV. They’re a bit sensationalist for me. I’m more comfortable with the steady & calm approach. And it’s usually cheaper with the smaller operators. ARC usually give good basic advice on a free initial phone consultation. You can also gauge the potential (always estimated) costs attached. Good luck, it will get sorted, just not right away.
I like steady, calm - and relentless! I never give up.
Thanks for explaining about the attachment to earnings. That’s useful. My great advantage over this Tenant is that he’s desperate to keep his employment, and therefore a collection/tracing agency can always find him.
The monthly rent on my house is very small, compared with the UK average. My priority & desire is to remove his right to use my house and cut him off. The lost money (although injurious) is less important. I will contact the agency you recommend, and report back.
Hi Rosie,
I feel for you. Reading through your posts just brings back memories of a similiar experience not that long ago. And you are right, Councils are tough on landlords - having damaged my property, my nightmare tenant reported the damages to the council who then issued ME with a Category 1 and Category 2 Notices. She literally did make me homeless because she would not leave even when I offered to return her deposit plus the equivalent of 2 months rent. The council would not consider me for emergency housing because (a) I had a house and (b) though in my 60s, having no dependents, I was not considered a priority. I literally lived out of my car and showered at work.
The Courts were not kind either; presenting herself as a vulnerable single parent with 2 primary aged children its not hard to guess who was deemed the ogre! I can’t blame the court in this instance, I had been taken in the same way! Eventually managed to get her out to a cost of just under £8,000, equivalent to a years’ rental but oh so worth it
There will always be what I call ‘career’ bad tenants; they come prepared with their tried and tested formulae - the clean cut presentation; personable engagement and reassuring demeanour; the requisite professional job which may or may not exist and even false references. Likewise there will always be a landlord who will get caught in their web of deceit, and older landlords (especially females) like you and me will always be deemed vulnerable and prime targets. Fortunately I have had a few positive experiences since not to be totally put off. I would suggest you get yourself a PI and record your tenants movements, in particular his alternate accommodation - that’s what helped me in the end.
I share this with you not for sympathy but encouragement that no matter what, there is light at the end of a seemingly very long and pitch black tunnel. For every bad tenant, there are a hundred or more grateful and honest home-seekers, sites like Open Rent are a testament to this or they would not exist. Don’t let it change you as a person; it is waring and saps ones energy but hang in there. I am fortunate to have my faith which helps me continue to believe in overall goodness of mankind and it is often the very good ones like you and me that gets sucked in but by the same token, we do hit the bigger jackpot in the end. That old adage ‘he who laugh last laugh the best’ is very true - but that’s another story Hang in there Rosie.
Hi Rose, I’m hanging in!
Thank you for your very beautiful words and your encouragement.
I’m heartbroken to think you had to sleep in your car while a Tenant took advantage of your kindness. I bet that was really damaging to you, and I’m sorry.
The eviction laws don’t seem to take into account the suffering caused to good Landlords, nor their age or state of health. Even if I were 89, I’d still be having to fend for myself, while the Tenant had full (ab)use of my house. In addition to the fight with my Tenant, I am struggling with the challenge of finding a way to keep myself + my partner (+ 3 pets) alive while living in a field throughout the winter. I’m a pretty tough old bird but my partner is badly disabled and had a stroke. We don’t have access to any safe indoor environment. As you observe, when helping the homeless, Councils favour single mothers, pregnant women etc. (It’s a huge irony that my Tenant would qualify for emergency housing before I did.)
I do blame myself for not following up every tiny avenue that was available to me, when checking out this man. I didn’t phone the personal referee, for instance. The other “facts” seemed so strong that I didn’t feel I needed anyone else to back them up. But when things went wrong I did phone the referee (a manager of an Estate Agency) who, when it was hinted to him that things weren’t quite right, explained that he’d only met my Tenant ONCE (when Tenant was fixing an office computer) and he considered him to be a “weirdo” . In my defence, I guess this manager wouldn’t have offered this word if I’d asked for a reference back in July: I wouldn’t have been questioning the Tenant’s behaviour, and the referee would just have praised the Tenant’s work and that was that.
There are some very lovely souls in the world (including yourself) and I strive to surround myself with positivity and trustworthy people, but once in a while you do get duped and it’s really horrible. And it’s abundantly clear that the checking systems which are available to us, are far from secure.
I think I do need a PI. How might I go about finding one?
I feel for you having experienced a similar situation with one of my ex tenants.
Collins advice is good, keep an accurate detailed chronology of events dates and times of any unsociable behaviour. and issue the tenant with a section 8 notice.
I’m sure your tenancy agreement will mention use of illegal substances. You may find that when you issue the section 8 the tenant packs up and leaves as the last thing he would want is Police involvement.
Remember you can legally inspect the property with 48 hours notice and I would suggest that you photograph anything that shouldn’t be there.
If the tenant doesn’t leave then you may have to enlist the help of a solicitor However during the pandemic is not the easiest of times to instigate eviction as the government keep moving the goalposts creating a backlog of court cases so sadly the process may take longer than it would in normal times.
Your best hope is to get police involvement if your being harassed or your able to prove the drugs issue and I hope your tenant leaves if his own accord.
Hi Geoff, thanks for contributing. I feel for you too, if you’ve experienced anything similar. It really hurts.
But I like your words “ex-Tenant” - you managed to remove them, which feels good!
I’m grateful for your advice and instructions, because you’ve been there before, and you know what you’re talking about. I’ve felt horribly caught between what I believed to be ‘the rules’ and what the Council have been saying. I’ve been told I can’t take photos of damage - but that is clearly rubbish. I believed I could legally inspect the property, with notice, but the Tenant (supported by the Council) says I’m invading his privacy, which is also rubbish.
‘Illegal substances’, good phrase! The Agreement says that nothing illegal must be carried on within my house. But how ‘illegal’ does it have to be? e.g. some recreational drugs seem to be acceptable these days, for private use… (Personally I don’t think any drug-use is acceptable in a rented house.)
You need to issue a section 8 for the unpaid rent, the antisocial behaviour and abuse of your property. Make sure you request the judge to order the release of the deposit from whichever organisation you’ve used. Get him out.
The local county court will help you out with advice about the necessary forms and procedures.
If he doesn’t pay the court order, you are entitled to attach his earnings through a warrant of execution, that will screw him up with his employer, which it appears he is concerned about his reputation there. You can also attach his bank account if you know the details and that he has funds in there, they will freeze his account.
I wouldn’t be concerned about the council regarding his intimidation claims, he has to prove it and, I presume, there are no grounds. You are fully entitled to monitor your property and conduct inspections, particularly if there is evidence of damage or misuse. If he is aggressive and / or abusive / threatening on the doorstep, call the police. Take a witness, and ask them to record the visit on video. It is an offence to make a threat or even raise his hand in a threatening manner.
I once had some gypsy acquaintances offer to help me out with a bad tenant, (tongue in cheek) do you know any? I did not take them up on their offer by the way. Thankfully the police finally caught up with him for drug dealing and he spent a good number of years in Wakefield prison. Would you believe the council told me I could not terminate his contract without a court order, as it was still his home.
Good luck, don’t let it drag on, as the stress factor is not worth it. Cut your losses and get your home back.
You are fully entitled to inspect your property with due notice, as per your Tenancy Agreement, with or without his presence.
You are fully entitled to photograph the damage to your property, for record and insurance purposes.
The tenant cannot live as he chooses, if he is; a) breaking the contract, causing a nuisance etc, b) breaking the law, carrying out illegal activities, etc.
Send the council a copy of his contract, sight the incidents and photographic evidence, where he is in breach of the contract and breaking the law. Then I would be inclined to tell the council to s…t or get off the pan, i.e. prosecute you or belt up. Pardon my language, but they make my blood boil.
Evidence is essential, make sure you keep a log of everything said, written and done, and you are sure of your facts.
Could you phone the police to ask the questions about the drugs etc or if they are able to offer any evidence, support or advice in the eviction process as they have had involvement previously?
Hi Chris35, I’m grateful for all your instructions and advice. It does make you want to swear! and my blood is boiling too.
Thanks for confirming that I can take photos of my own house. I believe the law revolves around what is “reasonable”, and therefore mending broken front door locks, photographing damage for insurers etc is entirely logical and reasonable. What is NOT reasonable is this Tenant’s gross behaviour.
I don’t go in for the use of “naughty boys” to remove a man the (perhaps) easier way - I prefer a durable legal judgment and a piece of paper in my hand. But it’s wrong that the justice system takes so long to remove a bad Tenant. This really does need challenging.
Now, you Chris (and the Team here) may enjoy this. I’ve been given a lot of confidence by all the comments on this site, and so I’ve been fighting the Council hard these past few days.
I’ve tripped up the Housing Officer, they made 2 bad mistakes in writing and their manager has had to step in and apologise.
I’ve proved the Housing Officer gave me incorrect advice, causing me to have to spend £90 on a courier to do a same-day delivery of a key. (The Housing Officer decided to over-rule a PC’s instruction, saying the Policeman needed ‘more training’ - what an insult. But the Police were correct.) So I can now sue the Housing Officer (in a Money Claim) for the refund of my £90.
Shall I?
I accused the Council of favouritism (useful tactic). They were supporting the Tenant while knowing almost nothing, whereas they’re supposed to be totally unbiased and must be seen to hear both sides. The manager caved in today (yay!) and she has offered to do all she can to help me evict the Tenant. So I will hold her to her promise, and next week we can have some fun.
Sounds like progress to me. Thanks to everyone here. Please help me keep going, keep giving suggestions. x
